Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OPEN DISCUSSION #11 inheritance

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • OPEN DISCUSSION #11 inheritance

    This is an open discussion on genetic inheritance. Traits and base colors seem to be inherited to different degrees depending on several factors and mendelian genetics haven't been proven in this species... so, feel.free to discuss the finer point and or methods to increase heritability percentages or anything else related to this subject.

  • #2
    We have seen how stacking has caused visual trait expression to develop and be more readily heritable... just think of pinstripes for an example. A natural trait that has been developed for many generation can bring forward an advancement of that expression... as with quad pins and raised scales within those pins. Sometimes something that seems new is just an amplified expression of an existing trait that has developed to the next level of expression. Stacking, by breeding similarly colored animals, over generations, can increase the percentage of heritability. I have seen it reach about 50% heritability for the base color red, with only one parent coming from the stacked line. Line breeding, which is sometimes done, is used to stack and amplify quickly, but may not always be a good idea... there are many on both sides of the fence over this method. No point in arguing it for this discussion.

    Comment


    • #3
      One interesting observation. I have yet to see orange patterns on a yellow crested gecko. Not a slightly orange gecko, but a.true yellow. My impression is that that base color and pattern color have no genetic correlation and it can only be visual when another color is mixed or introduced along with the yellow. Until I see evidence otherwise, I believe that true yellow is like a primary or base color in cresteds. Being so close in color to the wild type buckskins may be no coincidence. This is merely an observation/theory that I am presenting to see if anyone has some input that could disprove it or simply want to discuss the genetic impact of knowing connections of this nature.

      Comment


      • #4
        With red, being introduced to any color, the orange pattern expression becomes visual.... does this mean that a black based gecko, that has orange in the markings, has some red in it? Do you have to eliminate that red to create a true black and white? A lot of black or black and white geckos look brownish (having yellow) when they aren't fired up... hence the white pattern without the orange coming from the yellow genetics. I know there is a limb that I am walking out on with all of this, but trying to piece together genetics through visual expressions is tricky business. Just want some theory feedback.

        Comment


        • #5
          About the red color. I seen this here with 1 of my hatchlings. I used a red an orangish color dak female with a dark brownish tiger dal Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20150711_213421.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	92.2 KB
ID:	1067939male i guess you can say an the hatchling looks completely like mom noth of dad except spots.Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20150626_172041.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	77.9 KB
ID:	1067940 an the produced a little one like this.Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20150713_181336.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	93.4 KB
ID:	1067941.
          Crested geckos 4:5:15
          Chewie. 0:1:1

          http://www.facebook.com/cjgeckos

          Comment


          • #6
            As.fsr.as passing on traits, it is the norm to have a mix from both parents, to different degrees and some will look like the dam or the sire. You will usually get some that don't resemble either... this is why you see people talking about "you never know what you are going to get" when it comes to breeding crested geckos.

            Comment


            • #7
              I can agree i wasn't excepting this at all. I thought it would be just like the other 2.
              Crested geckos 4:5:15
              Chewie. 0:1:1

              http://www.facebook.com/cjgeckos

              Comment


              • #8
                I remember when my first pair started producing. The sire was a brown flame inkblot dal and the female was a gray flame inkblot dal. Everything had some combination of the parents and then a cramcicle hatched out... and stranger things have happened since then.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sweet im thinking of doing this pair again nexted season an it also depends how the winter months go.
                  Crested geckos 4:5:15
                  Chewie. 0:1:1

                  http://www.facebook.com/cjgeckos

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Big Tom, I love your idea of yellow as a sort of primary color! I can easily see how that might be true! I'll certainly be looking for color interaction patterns in the future with an eye towards a possible yellow base color. Thanks for the great hypothesis!
                    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

                    3.3 crested geckos: Turkish, Sollux, Pyx, Buttercup, Dandelion, and Jem.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm glad it makes some sense, George?, it is just a thought based on many observations. I pair up animals based solely on my observations... not to make more of the same look by pairing up.similar animals. Everything seems to be based on traits, levels of expression and color interacting with other colors and the traits. I think that sometimes we can make these animals look like they are following some sort of mendelian genetics, but that just seems to be our desires of proving out something overtaking the reality of what is really.going on. Selectively.breeding and subsequently stacking can produce really dark or light animals that produce similar hatching at higher percentages... but it does not mean that it is a simple recessive trait.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think there must be an awful lot of gene interaction and interference going on with these geckos. It's possible that we have so much difficulty coming up with a workable genetic model because the colors and patterns that are expressed or hidden may depend very heavily on lots of other gene combinations in a particular gecko and how the gene sets express themselves (or don't) when they are combined. There are many instances in other animal species of some genes being influenced by or connected to others. (For example, in cats, male calicos are extremely rare and invariably sterile, and cats with white fur and blue eyes are often deaf. I know these are mammals and we DO have Mendelian models for them; I'm just using these as examples of gene interdependency.)
                        Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

                        3.3 crested geckos: Turkish, Sollux, Pyx, Buttercup, Dandelion, and Jem.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sure, I get your analogy... without any actual genetic certainty, we are not going to have any map to follow. If we can gain a few bits of concrete visual gene interaction, then we can have a little control within those areas... and maybe intensify that control through stacking. I wish that more people would observe and share information on this subject, but I am not holding my breath...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I hope to try breeding a couple of my "kids" a year or so down the line, and I plan to keep lots of notes. When it happens, I'll share my results with you, if you want. It's a little sad that so many people just throw their geckos together and sell the babies without keeping useful records of traits and such. Spotting possible inheritance patterns would be much easier if there were more information out there, especially if we had some nice charts spanning several generations.
                            Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

                            3.3 crested geckos: Turkish, Sollux, Pyx, Buttercup, Dandelion, and Jem.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would like to know if you observe anything along these lines... or even have a hunch. I don't have charts, but know my lineage. I also keep my breeder males that my lines are derrived from. Some of them are great great grandfathers of my current breeders. It gives me the option to line breed back to the foundation of the line. It can be to keep it in line with the desire able traits or try to amplify anomalies that may not have been expressed until later generations. I also have an attachment to them.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X