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Thread: What is up with PDV?

  1. #1
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    Default What is up with PDV?

    He seems to have all but fallen off the face of the internet from what I can tell. I have been waiting for his available list to be updated for a year and still nothing.

    I would pay top dollar for some of his offerings, but can't really seem to figure it how to do so.

    Does anyone have any insight?

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    Maybe he's very busy with something that's taking his attention away from the website? Have you tried contacting him?

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    Yup. Reached out via email about 8 months ago reurchasing leachie when his 2016 clutches broke shell but got no response.

    His site is still saying none available, waiting for 2016 hatch.

    I assume he is busy and that's why we had been inactive. Interesting guy, I just wish I knew what he was getting into and was hoping someone had some inside info!

    On a side note, it is interesting to see him promoting the communal housing of adult cresteds and adult gargs. I know the general belief in the rhac community, that this is not OK, but I also know you're a bit "atypical" when it comes to some "settled" topics in the hobby; what are your feelings on this Niff?

    Disclaimer, before the inevitable comments from others who may be concerned for my geckos: I am NOT, I repeat NOT, advocating this practice or planning on instituting in my collection. I am just interested in discussion.

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    Niffarious (01-14-2017)

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    I'm not actually surprised he keeps his in groups, but the communal housing is interesting. It surprised me at first a bit, myself.

    I'm not surprised that he's able to do it. However, I think something gets lost in translation. He's not talking about throwing a couple together in a tub, or an 18x18x24 exo. And he probably assumes people understand that.

    It's important to note that a lot of things people claim are wrong about keeping cresteds and gargs aren't wrong. Some are wrong if you are keeping on easy mode, however. (Which by the way, isn't wrong either! I am NOT ripping on people who keep their geckos the way most folks do, at all.)

    Most people keeping crested geckos and gargoyle geckos got their entire introduction to this hobby with those animals. And they are EXTREMELY forgiving - to the degree you can keep them as many do, and have great reproductive and keeping success.

    However, this isn't the case for a large number of species. For many they need seasonal cycles (some including genuine brumation or hibernation) even for health, let alone breeding success. A lot more attention to detail has to be considered. If one enters the hobby and has a lot of experience and exposure to this and other species, an interest in research, natural history of the animals, etc - you notice subtleties that new keepers or people who've been keeping one or two species the same way for years...simply do not. And this just comes with experience and practice, like everything else.

    Here's the thing - while I don't keep mine communally, I do keep several species specific cohab groups. I've done so since the late 90's and haven't lost so much as a tail. But, I also keep my animals differently, and more naturally. Note - bioactive is not 'natural' in this sense. It's still easy mode. And I want to be clear, again, there isn't anything wrong with that. But, it also doesn't mean certain other things are wrong, full stop. It means they don't work when kept a certain way (which is currently the prevailing and most common way).

    New Caledonia has seasons, these animals roam, they eat high protein (and many vertebrates) in the wild....and more. This means that a couple long held myths I see all the time are blatantly untrue, but make the process of keeping these animals easier for the average keeper.

    1. Large cages - they THRIVE in these. They WILL find food, they will NOT become stressed. I keep all my babies singly and move them up as they grow, but adults are perfectly fine in large enclosures.

    2. Protein - CGD is important, but so is protein in the form of live food. Their diet in the wild is actually mostly live food consisting of insects and lots of....vertebrates. This was discussed VERY early on as people noticed how they kill. You will notice they grab on and hold food, pushing down slowly with force instead of crunching it like most insect eaters. This is because it's ideal to kill vertebrate prey. Live food is not a treat, it is important.

    3. They will readily use a basking spot. If you provide a large enclosure - enough that you can offer a mild basking spot of around 83F or so with a proper thermal gradient for thermal regulation, they will absolutely use it (especially gargoyles). I notice it used more often after large meals and females getting ready to lay.

    4. Seasons. When provided with actual seasonal differences, MANY issues people see when breeding do not pop up.

    When ALL of the above are done, I notice several things:

    - better growth
    - no fat geckos, and weight maintained better during breeding
    - animals regulate themselves. No over-laying, no over breeding
    - little to no aggression

    So saying all of this - if you know your animals, know what you are doing, I'm sure it's possible to house communally...sure. But most people aren't set up for doing seasons with their geckos, most aren't in large enough enclosures, and most lack the decades of experience Mr. de Vosjoli has. I'm comfortable to cohab a few animals, but I would never set up a communal. I would never recommend to anyone, either.

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    All very interesting topics.

    Like I said, I am in no way knowledgeable, experienced or comfortable enough to do the cohab of different species thing but it is certainly a compelling topic.

    I am interested in what you have to say about the "natural" setups, how you define it and how I can go about creating one. I moved from dirt, sticks and plastic leaves (what my local exotic shop started me with) to a fully hardscaped and planted "bioactive" viv about 6 months after I got my first NewCal gecko. I plan on doing this with my baby garg oncr she is large enough for dirt as well as our yet to be obtained leachie once it reaches size.
    I am very invested in giving my animals the best possible captive experience I can, as opposed to amassing a huge collection in tubs (not that there is anything wrong with that). Quality over quantity is what we are going for.

    I have noticed what you mentioned in reference to a basking spot. We keep our home at about 70F in the winter so I have small watt black heat bulbs on top of their tanks to keep their temps optimal and I notice both the crest and garg hanging out under the light for periods of time. They both have awesome gradients and seem to utilize all areas of their enclosures, but it is hard to deny that they resemble our bearded dragon sitting directly under the heat source with their heads at attention.

    Besides insects which verts do you use for feeding? I have never used them myself but am interested in getting into it for their benefit. Pinkeys? Baby mice? Live or dead?

    I have always been skeptical of the enclosure size dogma myself, but being that I am no expert I defer to the experience of those who do have experience/breeders I get my babies from.

    The crest is in the hardscaped 18x18x24 live viv. The garg is in a 12x12x18 "nursery" for a few more months before it gets its own larger "naturalistic" setup, it did come up through a critterkeeper and 12"exo cube (she seems really tolerant to moving, never missed a meal, never got sketched out. But we did keep strictly to the no handling for 2 weeks after relocating guideline).

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    When I say natural, I'm referring to natural cycles, and not necessarily bioactive (though I love bioactive!!).

    Also to be clear, the vast majority of my collection is in 'easy mode'! I do not currently have the room for a bunch of 40-50 gallon enclosures! I'm also not planning on producing a lot of animals the next couple of years here while I'm starting an unrelated business.

    Your enclosure sizes sound perfectly fine!

    For the natural cycles, I don't just do 75F, followed by shorter days and slightly cooler temps. I do:

    Dry and cooler (reduce misting, basking turned off)
    Damp and cooler (resume heavy misting, basking turned off)
    Damp and warm (heavy misting, basking provided)
    Dry and warm (reduce misting, basking provided)

    Right now, I'm going between damp/cool and damp/warm.

    For basking I use those ceramic heaters, simply because they don't throw light. I use the lowest wattage one. And yes, they most definitely use it! I would also say the animals provided UVB do come out more as well, though that's a whole other topic.

    I feed primarily dubia and crickets, but supplement with hornworms and pheonix worms. I feed smallest size possible pinkies (live and f/t) once in a while to animals who are producing/breeding. When I have embryos who die in development, I feed those to the gargs. (IE an animal makes it full term, tries to hatch, and dies due to congenital deformity). This is rare.

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    I understand now.

    I assume you slowly transition every three months?

    Funny your should mention uvb.. I'm actually going to grab a new uvb bulb and put it in the gargs tank and see how things go.

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    Question do you believe that an exoterra 36"x36" would be big enough for a basking areas? I've just got mine setup with jungle Dawn LEDs and it stays in the mid to lower 70's Fahrenheit. My house is on a heat pump set for 72F.

    Sent from my Z963VL using Tapatalk

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    Based on what niff had said, yes. I have a semi basking spot in a12x12x18 right now.

    I think the key is making sure there is a good temperature gradient so your geck can cool down if needed.

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    Yeah that's plenty large enough! The nice thing about the ceramic emitters is that the temperature drops drastically within inches, so it's easy to have a proper gradient. Unless I'm mistaken, the 36x18x36 is close to 100 gallons?

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