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Thread: More Parthenogenic Eggs!

  1. #11
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    I am watching this like a hawk. So interesting!! Real life Jurassic park!!
    5.6.1 Crested geckos
    1.1.0 leos
    1.0.0 Gargoyle

  2. #12
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    In leachianus geckos that lay parthenogenic clutches, it is very normal to have one fertile and one inferte egg, on occasion both will be fertIle or infetile. It is also very common to have embryos that never hatch and many of them have organs outside the body cavity. Those that hatch out live do not always survive... so far, In my experience, one out three survive into adulthood. Many embryos form and never hatch, but don't be discouraged, occasionally it happens... and it will have you bouncing off the walls with joy. Live Parthenogenic hatches have occurred less than 10% of the time with my animals. I hope this helps to shed some light on what you may be experiencing.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tom View Post
    In leachianus geckos that lay parthenogenic clutches, it is very normal to have one fertile and one inferte egg, on occasion both will be fertIle or infetile. It is also very common to have embryos that never hatch and many of them have organs outside the body cavity. Those that hatch out live do not always survive... so far, In my experience, one out three survive into adulthood. Many embryos form and never hatch, but don't be discouraged, occasionally it happens... and it will have you bouncing off the walls with joy. Live Parthenogenic hatches have occurred less than 10% of the time with my animals. I hope this helps to shed some light on what you may be experiencing.
    That sounds just like what has been happening with Quinn. So far none of my other cresties has laid a parthenogenic egg, and Quinn seems to be making a habit of it. I am curious as to whether the ability to lay parthenogenic eggs is something that's inherited. Could she pass that trait on? I originally bought a male that looks very much like her except that he's an olive harley instead of sharing her color scheme but I never introduced them, mainly because I'm curious about her ability to produce parthenogenic eggs. She is my first reptile and came from PetSmart, so there's really no way to know if any of her relatives might share her ability.

    If sometime in the future she were to be paired with a male, do you think the resulting hatchlings would be extra strong because her reproductive abilities seem to be above those of most cresties, or do you think they would be more likely to have defects?

    These are just some of the questions I have, I don't know if anyone has any answers to them.
    Boston Terrier 1.0, Stetson R.I.P. 8/15/2015.
    Rough Collie (rescued) 1.0, Teddy
    Crested Geckos 9.11.12
    Pine Isle Chahoua 1.0.1 Hunter, Cami
    Leopard Geckos 1.2 Confetti, Snowdrop, & Beauty
    Bearded Dragon 1.0 Jayden

  4. #14
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    I was reading another post on facebook about a lady that does not toss her Fertilized "infertile" eggs, she treats them as fertile until he knows 100% she has had a few babies this way!
    5.6.1 Crested geckos
    1.1.0 leos
    1.0.0 Gargoyle

  5. #15
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    Alos I wounder how offten this happens when th eowner does not even know about it? I mean you have one female gecko, you get eggs... toss um, right?
    5.6.1 Crested geckos
    1.1.0 leos
    1.0.0 Gargoyle

  6. #16
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    So far, I have not seen any signs of heritability, all eggs from the living parthenogenic examples have been infertile. The genetics are not Necessarily "stronger"... just two, almost identical copies, overlaid. From what I can tell it may have an effect on the growth mechanism which could be a missing component from the male side. Many embryos over grow the egg and have the organs outside their bodies. I have seen several defects, including physical and neurological, in both embryos and live hatchlings.
    From a scientific view, if your gecko has ever been with a male (even as a baby) or it was not in your care from hatching and kept segregated, nothing is proven if something does hatch. I know this from experience now. It is a long road to proving this out for the first time...

    Don't toss those eggs... lol

  7. #17
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    I really want to be kept in the loop on whatever you find out about this. Even though they're different species, what you're describing is what I'm also seeing, and both species are from the same locale. So far, the parthenogenic eggs have been buried in the lay box and the duds hidden in different areas of he cage. Coincidence, or does she sense something?

    Quinn was pretty young when I bought her five years ago, and there were no cresties there that were old enough to sex, so I don't know. Here are some pictures of the one that hatched with organs outside the body. You can see the pink bubble of innards in one of the pictures. I took pictures so I could compare the hatchling to Quinn and see how much it did or didn't look like her. It had a dorsal pattern and similar to hers, but not partial pinning, and its dorsal pattern looks wider The colors are the same. I know it was alive for at least a small amount of time after it hatched, because the substrate was disturbed and the other egg was rolled of into another area of the incubator.








    This is another time where I wish my photography skills were better. I moved it around a bit to take pictures from different angles. It was dead when I found it.
    Boston Terrier 1.0, Stetson R.I.P. 8/15/2015.
    Rough Collie (rescued) 1.0, Teddy
    Crested Geckos 9.11.12
    Pine Isle Chahoua 1.0.1 Hunter, Cami
    Leopard Geckos 1.2 Confetti, Snowdrop, & Beauty
    Bearded Dragon 1.0 Jayden

  8. #18
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    the loop has consumed years of my life. I have had the two females that do this for 10 years now. Sometimes the organs are completely on the outside... as if you just split the belly and flipped them inside out. It is not always the case, sometimes not at all, but it happens on occasion, This is really more work to figure out than most people would comprehend. I was wrong about a lot of things at the beginning and have learned more than I ever intended. Right now the geonome is mapped and sequenced from my animals and inheritance maps are being built.

  9. #19
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    That is a lot of work, but it's also very interesting. I'd love to know more about how this works, and I'm guessing that there aren't any guarantees that the causes and effects of this in leachies and cresties are identical. It looks the same and likely is, but who knows for sure?

    Sachi, I don't know how often this happens. I know that it is not common for a crestie to lay parthenogenic eggs. There have been a few reports of it on this board, but the great majority of eggs that are incubated from females that have never been with a male are duds. Since there's no guarantee that any crestie is unable to lay parthenogenic eggs, we try anyway just in case.
    Boston Terrier 1.0, Stetson R.I.P. 8/15/2015.
    Rough Collie (rescued) 1.0, Teddy
    Crested Geckos 9.11.12
    Pine Isle Chahoua 1.0.1 Hunter, Cami
    Leopard Geckos 1.2 Confetti, Snowdrop, & Beauty
    Bearded Dragon 1.0 Jayden

  10. #20
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    The rates of parthenogenesis in the wild are pretty low from what has been studied. In general, only 0.1% of vertebrates are found to reproduce in some way via parthenogenesis. It seems to be a short-term strategy only for most animals and tends to be found more in geographically isolated areas and in populations that don't move around much. Leachies seem to fit that perfectly. Cresties may be another story but there is probably nothing that they lack in terms of genetics that would allow them to reproduce this way.

    I've been trying to find some data on why the success rate of hatchings with some parthenogenetic reptiles is lower using this method than sexual reproduction. I think there is some basis to "use it or lose it" as it seems like the less likely a species is to reproduce asexually the more problems occur with hatching and overall survivability. In nature, most long-term success for vertebrates is found via sexual reproduction.
    Specializing in Crested Geckos
    Working with Uromastyx | Uroplatus | PI Chahoua
    Also keeping: Australian Shepherds (Chester & Sadie)
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