Clarks Problems

[viciousenvy]

I have not yet tried the Clarks diet myself but am intersted. However, i just finished reading a post on the "big sites" forum detailing some problems that may be cause by the diet. From all the posts I have read here everyone has seemed to have only good expierences. I was curious if anyone has expierenced any probles(simmilliar to those described on the other site? Also how long has Clarks been used for by everyone, and how long has it been used/ tested for?
Im writting this post not to upset Clarks people but warn people of a possible problem, and see if anyone else has had any issues. I am in no way trying to say that there is indeed anything at all wrong with the diet just that I found the post interesting and thought others may be interseted.
Anyway, I just thought I would share this info , knowledge is power.

[Matthew Parks]

I have only heard anything negative from a very select few, who are doing a very good job of putting fear and doubt into peoples minds in regards to this diet. The few people are all friends with each other and all have a serious hate for Clark and nothing would please them more than to put Clark out of business. If there is anyone who is not affiliated with Bobby Pruett or Midwest Herps that has anything negative to say about it, I would be very intersted to hear about it. So far all the feedback from people I have spoken to have loved the diet. I have been using for 2 months and I believe Clark has been using it in it's current form for about 6 months.

Also you can mention the other sites here and even provide links to them, I am curious about what people are saying on the other forums and message boards and whether or not it's just Bobby Pruett and Co.

Ingredients:


PASTEURIZED EGG WHITE (AVIDIN DENATURED BY PASTEURIZATION), AIR DRIED FIG POWDER, AIR DRIED APRICOT POWDER, AIR DRIED PLUM POWDER (AIR DRYING RETAINS ALL NUTRITION), BEE POLLEN (AUSTRALIAN, JARRAH TREE), VACUUM DRIED RAW HONEY (RETAINS ALL ANTIBIOCTIC/NUTRITIONAL/PRESERVATIVE QUALITIES) WHEAT FLOUR, WHEAT STARCH, APPLE JUICE CONCENTRATE, RICE FLOUR, OAT FLOUR, BARLEY FLOUR, BANANA FLAKES, GRAPE JUICE CONCENTRATE, ELECTROLICTIC IRON, ZINC SULFATE, VITAMIN E, NIACINAMIDE (IS A B VITAMIN), RIBOFLAVIN (B-2), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE (B-6), THIAMIN (B-1), FOLIC ACID, VITAMIN B-12, MINER-ALL (REGISTER TRADEMARK), SPIRULINA/CHLORELLA/HAEMOTOCOCCUS ALGEA (100% PURE, BROKEN CELL WALL FOR EFFICIENT ABSORPTION OF NUTRIENTS) VITAMIN D-3 (400 iu per pound)
_________________

[earthpig23]

fact of the matter is that with any MRP or suplement their are those who question or go against it. Think of why alot of people are wanting to switch to Clarks cause the CGD has its own drawbacks. I still am hesitant to just feed soley but was always weary of CGD and why you had to cold turkey it.
I am sure when T Rex brought CGD to the public it wasnt just automatically accepted. Everyone needs to take in their own accounts and get info from many sources before making judgement calls.

[Crested Lady]

I am stating my personal opinion of this diet from what I have seen firsthand with my gecko colony. (I actually sent part of this in an e-mail today.)

I've been feeding Clark's Diet for 3 or 4 months now and have had nothing but good results. Of of my geckos appear more alert and have a beautiful overall appearance. Everyone from hatchlings to adults regularly eat it... even my leachies, chahouas, sarasinorum, and gargoyle eat it and all appear to be doing great.

I use and sell Clark's because it is something that works for me and my geckos and I believe it will work for others. Clark's is not meant to be fed as the sole diet. True, it holds all the vitamins and minerals needed for healthy geckos, but there is also the need to hunt that must be fulfilled. A helping of crickets (I give them crix one day, Clark's the next, and so on) is recommended as part of their diet.

I will not say there is not a chance of problems. There's a chance of a problem with any product. All I'm saying is that I've never seen one with my collection and will continue to be 100% satisfied with the diet until I do. All of my animals appear happy and healthy, and in all my years of dealing with geckos... this is the best product I've found and the only one I've ever actually asked to sell on my website.

[Dr Alan]

However, i just finished reading a post on the "big sites" forum detailing some problems that may be cause by the diet.

Can you put up a link to this forum and these posts?

[Hurley]

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=920840,920840

I'm guessing this is one of the links in question. Basically a copy and paste from the thread here.

[Hurley]

I guess the main problem I have with the whole story is that what he's proposing as the cause of the "problem with the diet" is that it's causing a massive influx of fluid into the gut and dehydrating the gecko. If that's the case, why are there not baby geckos dying right and left? They are much more susceptible to fluid and electrolyte imbalances than older geckos. Why did it take months and months to suddenly "cause" the problem? That makes no sense. What about the number of people out there feeding the various dry diets with NO water added? Why do those animals not dehydrate instantly and die? Why don't cats and dogs everywhere drop over dead after stocking up on dry pet food? Those foods draw moisture into the gut. Probably because the body is set up to counter things such as these.

In the wild and in the captive situation, animals do not eat foods the exact concentration as their serum. Water will move in or out of the gut as needed. If the animal starts to dehydrate slightly from water moving out of the bloodstream and into the gut, the thirst center kicks in and the animal drinks to make up for the loss. If the animal overindulges on water (which is way too low in osmolality/under concentrated), then the excess is eliminated. There are of course points at which the body can't compensate (such as too much free water without taking in electrolyes or too much salt without access to water, etc.), but in a normal, healthy gecko, I can't see how this caused what this person is proposing it did.

I guess I'm failing to see how any healthy animal with access to water will dehydrate from eating a diet that is more concentrated than their body fluids. Especially as watery as the diet is at 3.25:1 water to diet.

I'm interested in hearing the findings on these geckos. I'm interested in why it wasn't recommended to give them fluids intracoelomically or via syringe feeding a balanced electrolyte solution rather than counting on already sick geckos who aren't maintaining hydration to drink enough water + electrolyte solution to do anything.

If, heaven forbid, they do die, I hope the entire gecko is submitted for necropsy and histopathology. I'd be interested to hear if there's an underlying cause of these geckos getting sick, leading to them not drinking as they should or losing more water than they should, and getting to the point they are.

There are some problems, though, with the story that just aren't adding up to me. I guess we wait and watch. In the meantime, my baby geckos are continuing to flourish on the diet with no sign of dehydration, normal stools, and good, healthy appetites and growth rates.

[Dr Alan]

Thanks Connie. Very well-put rebuttal. The questions you asked are important and need to be clarified.

[Midwestherps]

I guess the main problem I have with the whole story is that what he's proposing as the cause of the "problem with the diet" is that it's causing a massive influx of fluid into the gut and dehydrating the gecko. If that's the case, why are there not baby geckos dying right and left? They are much more susceptible to fluid and electrolyte imbalances than older geckos. Why did it take months and months to suddenly "cause" the problem? That makes no sense. What about the number of people out there feeding the various dry diets with NO water added? Why do those animals not dehydrate instantly and die? Why don't cats and dogs everywhere drop over dead after stocking up on dry pet food? Those foods draw moisture into the gut. Probably because the body is set up to counter things such as these.

In the wild and in the captive situation, animals do not eat foods the exact concentration as their serum. Water will move in or out of the gut as needed. If the animal starts to dehydrate slightly from water moving out of the bloodstream and into the gut, the thirst center kicks in and the animal drinks to make up for the loss. If the animal overindulges on water (which is way too low in osmolality/under concentrated), then the excess is eliminated. There are of course points at which the body can't compensate (such as too much free water without taking in electrolyes or too much salt without access to water, etc.), but in a normal, healthy gecko, I can't see how this caused what this person is proposing it did.

I guess I'm failing to see how any healthy animal with access to water will dehydrate from eating a diet that is more concentrated than their body fluids. Especially as watery as the diet is at 3.25:1 water to diet.

I'm interested in hearing the findings on these geckos. I'm interested in why it wasn't recommended to give them fluids intracoelomically or via syringe feeding a balanced electrolyte solution rather than counting on already sick geckos who aren't maintaining hydration to drink enough water + electrolyte solution to do anything.

If, heaven forbid, they do die, I hope the entire gecko is submitted for necropsy and histopathology. I'd be interested to hear if there's an underlying cause of these geckos getting sick, leading to them not drinking as they should or losing more water than they should, and getting to the point they are.

There are some problems, though, with the story that just aren't adding up to me. I guess we wait and watch. In the meantime, my baby geckos are continuing to flourish on the diet with no sign of dehydration, normal stools, and good, healthy appetites and growth rates.

I hope this isnt how my 15 minutes are going to be used up..

To address the only important aspects of your post I could see outside of showing an extreme partisanship ( I wonder how much of that Clark asked you to post.. he has the problem of not being able to fight his own battles).

I imagine my issues stem from feeding only that diet, which was done as a favor to Mr. Tucker to test its viability.. and guess what, its not viable, and now that I have negative things to say the PR machine is kicking in. It was nothing that simply "popped up" as youre phrasing would like to infer to what Ive said before, it is something that accumulated over time, with reptiles oftentimes they won't show symptoms of anything being wrong until things hve become severe, so I didn't notice anything until aolmost two months ago that my animals that were fed Clarks, looked "chubby", like they was a growth of some kind distending the bellies.

As to your questioning it being possible.. have you ever tried rehydrating something that has been thoroughly dehydrated.. especially in a short amount of time. Its impossible to do so completely. Im certainly no expert.. but the question remains, how did 3 animals out of my collection become impacted when they had never come in contact with substrate of any kind. It had to be something entering through their mouths, the only thing which was doing that was Clarks Frugivorous Diet. For the record none of my animals outside of Carribbean Dy Geckos, Strophs, Goniurosaurusre kept on any form of substrate. Im sorry Im not qualified to answer your technical questions.

As far as my husbadry prodecures.. I invite anyone who happens to be in my area to drop in and check out how I keep my animals. That seems to be the tilt lately.. this product which hasnt even been tested for a year is a gods send! It must be someone who can't keep an animal as ridiculously simple as a Rhacodactylus gecko (dont kid yourselves). The lynch mob mentality has kicked in.

The animals are being syringe dosed with electrolytes and water, I didnt realize I had to report in with every detail. I forgot who was paying my vet bills there, sorry. And I really don't have tons of time to sit on my butt and post things on the internet, I really prefer face to face communication, especially after learning the ropes over the last year in this psuedo business.

As far as my so called affiliation with Bobby Pruett, thats just more of the mob trying to discredit me, my only contacts with him came via my business relationship with Clark who knows the man far better than I ever will.

Furthermore, I am affiliated, on sides with, whatever you want to call it, no one! And its funny Matt should make a comment about how noone not affiliated with Pruett or I have anything bad to say about this diet.. look around a little harder.. and its very ironic that everyone with such great things to say are for the most part affiliated either in personal relationships of some kind, or business with Mr. Tucker. It all really goes both ways, and Im sick of my name being dragged through the mud because me speaking up hurts someones bottom dollar. Too bad.

Anyone else out there who has problems with Clark or his diet are the result of Clarks actions, not mine. Judging from some of the deals he shafted me on I would not be surprised to find that Im not the only one who has such a low opinion of him. I suppose that since Im outnumbered I should have just chalked up all the problems and walked away.. well sorry, I rocked your boats, deal with it and move on. A life is a wonderful thing, and you should all get one, I have experiences with this product that noone else has had to deal with.. yet! Im the one dealing with this shit and even in my opinion you people are turning it something far bigger than it needs to be. Time will tell alot more than jumping on one bandwagon or the other.

NEWSFLASH- Again, look around, Im not the only person out there not happy with this stuff.. Ive been singled out because what I have to say is more damaging at this point.. give it time though.

I have said my piece, Ive been completely honest. Im just to the point that I want alot of time and distance between our names as possible, because if and when this all blows up in his face, I dont want to be remembered as having anymore than a passing affiliation (which it was) that Iquickly got out of due the business practices involved.

As far as holes in my story,the only one I see is the one certain people have to fill in their pocketbooks, unfortunately at the expense of those who are willing to test it out on there collections unaware of the actual dangers that could be present. This could really go on forever, rest assured, that as soon as my animals pass anything or die, they will be taken back to the vet and I will have tests run. Maybe they inhaled alot of dust right? I wont rule out the possibility that it wasn't Clarks (and Ive used words like conjecture in other posts, because I honestly don't know for sure, ut there is no other explanation outside of dietary issues or something congenital.. which I personally rule out because of the number of animals Ive produced from this line that exhibit no problems whatsoever.)


Im not interested in the popularity contest aspect of all this, and between time and money Im not sure what Ive had to waste more of on this subject,so you wont be hearing from me until Iknow more, and rest assured, even if I am wrong, I will own up to it and be honest to everyone about what really is up with my gargs. Im pretty curious myself.

[Matthew Parks]

Tom,

If you are going to make accusations about the diet based on conjecture, as you admit this is all based on, then you will be called out and asked to clarify any apparent holes in your story. You have made the accusations, and now the burden of proof falls onto you. You have not provided any proof!

Why haven't hatchlings fed this diet exclusively for over 2 months had any digestive problems or for that matter ourtright died? You are saying the diet caused these problems, and then a few paragraphs later saying you don't know for sure what caused these problems. Bacterial infections in the gut are a much more likely cause of dehydration related impaction in the absence of a dangerous, ingestable substrate.

I sell Clarks Diet because I use it, I like it, and all of my geckos (over 300) have been eating it for over 2 months with no problems and certainly no deaths. The majority of them get Clarks several times a week as well as gutloaded, dusted, insects. That is how Clarks is designed to be fed, in conjunction with an insect diet.

So where is your proof, and where are the other people who have had problems with the diet?

Who is your vet, I will pay them for a consult and to discuss their diagnosis and we can post the results here.