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Thread: Obesity - a new trend??

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    Default Obesity - a new trend??

    I'm noticing a rampant number of photos and even posts about "chubby" geckos lately. I'm incredibly disturbed and wanted to start a thread discussing the health aspects of obesity rather than how "cute" they are. I don't know when fat rolls and double chins became cosmetically appreciated, but it does appear to be a growing trend.

    Heads up guys, but obesity is not cute, its incredibly unhealthy. Its not cute or healthy in labradors, and its not cute or healthy in geckos. We don't know how long our crested geckos can live in captivity, but I can pretty much guarrantee the ones with fat rolls and double chins aren't going to live as long as they could have.

    Fat reptiles is becoming increasingly common in all species, and here's a great article on all the possible negative consequences of starting to think our chubby geckos are the best looking ones.

    http://www.phoenixherp.com/joomla/im...Fs/obesity.pdf

    Obesity in reptiles is very common. This condition occurs for a combination of reasons depending
    on the reptile, diet, cage space, and decor. Reptiles are generally fed abundantly. After all, it is fun to
    watch a small creature blossom into a beautiful large specimen. Some herpetoculturalist even take delight
    to seen how long it takes a hatchling Burmese python to reach 20 feet. While it is excellent to watch it is
    harmful to the reptile for many reasons. First, herbivorous lizards and tortoises are often fed animal based
    protein to grow to a certain size quickly. Nutritionally, young reptiles cannot metabolically process high
    levels of protein without overworking their kidneys, liver, and intestines. Intestinal bloat is associated with
    intake of large quantities of easily digestible proteins and carbohydrates (Frye, 1991). The more animal
    based protein herbivorous reptiles ingest the more water they must drink to keep the kidneys diuresed. In
    young tortoises, the more water drank and the higher level of dietary protein is associated with doming of
    the scutes. This is why many captive tortoises have "pyramiding" bumps all over their carapace. Young
    herbivorous lizards are predisposed to gout, nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism, renal disease, and
    early deaths. Secondly, many foods are too high in fat. Commercial rat breeders feed their rats at least
    27% fat. Most mice are fed diets around 14% fat. Most young snakes are fed 1-2 times weekly a small
    prey item (like mice). As snakes increase in size and age they are of course fed larger prey (like rats). If
    rats have a diet higher in fat, logical minds would argue that the potential energy they produce as prey
    compared to mice is concomminently higher. Most snake owners in quest of attaining growth rapidly will
    maintain the same feeding schedule despite the large relative increase in fat in the diet. As the snake gets
    larger for the cage, its activity and ability to excercise decreases. Therefore, large snakes can be likened
    to couch potatoes. Their relative large size to a small cage predisposes them to respiratory disease as
    previously discussed. Fat snakes are also less efficient reproductively in production of libido, ovum
    production, and delivering the eggs or young. Their fatty diet and lack of opportunity to exercise
    predisposes them to developing fatty liver disease and steatitis. With fatty liver syndrome snakes, lizards,
    tortoises, crocodiles, and turtles loose the ability to dilute toxins, break down and synthesize proteins
    (important for the immune response), produce vitamins etc . . . General immune suppression is the
    result. Insectivorous lizards fed diets that are high in mealworms; monitors fed like snakes (excessive
    mice and rats); and tortoises fed bulky vegetables (instead of green leafy and grass hays) will also suffer
    from fatty liver disease.
    www.harleygecko.com : Color, Contrast, Structure
    Specializing in Harlequins and Pinstripes in Red, Cream and Yellow
    3.9.20+ crested geckos
    Harley - my first gecko, retired and spoiled
    Pickle - unsexed leachie

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    Not to sidetrack or anything, but Mimmieux... Your avatar, oh my god your avatar.
    To keep this response relevant, I fully agree with both of you. It's extremely serious an a perfect example of how people are so concerned with their animals being aesthetically pleasing in one way or another that the repercussions to the animals well being don't even momentarily cross their minds. I also agree that a heavier set gecko isn't necessarily obese. They can be "full-figured" and perfectly healthy.
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumblebat View Post
    Not to sidetrack or anything, but Mimmieux... Your avatar, oh my god your avatar.
    To keep this response relevant, I fully agree with both of you. It's extremely serious an a perfect example of how people are so concerned with their animals being aesthetically pleasing in one way or another that the repercussions to the animals well being don't even momentarily cross their minds. I also agree that a heavier set gecko isn't necessarily obese. They can be "full-figured" and perfectly healthy.
    Show me a "big boned" animal that is not also overweight... big boned is an excuse. Larger bodied animals that are healthy are large of frame, well propotioned and should not be rotund, or have rolls.
    www.harleygecko.com : Color, Contrast, Structure
    Specializing in Harlequins and Pinstripes in Red, Cream and Yellow
    3.9.20+ crested geckos
    Harley - my first gecko, retired and spoiled
    Pickle - unsexed leachie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misskiwi67 View Post
    Show me a "big boned" animal that is not also overweight... big boned is an excuse. Larger bodied animals that are healthy are large of frame, well propotioned and should not be rotund, or have rolls.
    I never once used the term "big boned."
    Please re-read what I said. I agree that obesity is dangerous and people are too caught up in their animals "looking cute." That being said, an animal that is healthy and filled out isn't "fat." You literally just told me I was wrong an then went on to say the exact same thing I did using different verbiage. "Full figured"= large specimen that is filled out.
    I'm sort of confused as to why you quoted what I said and then put quotation marks around something I didn't say as though I did. We obviously agree on the fact that obesity isn't a good thing. I was agreeing with you. I even explicitly said that initially.
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
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    Ok, everyone.

    Clearly this is a heated topic. Please keep responses to a respectful tone, even if you don't agree with each other. Or you actually do agree with each other. Otherwise this thread will head toward lockdown.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumblebat View Post
    I never once used the term "big boned."
    Please re-read what I said. I agree that obesity is dangerous and people are too caught up in their animals "looking cute." That being said, an animal that is healthy and filled out isn't "fat." You literally just told me I was wrong an then went on to say the exact same thing I did using different verbiage. "Full figured"= large specimen that is filled out.
    I'm sort of confused as to why you quoted what I said and then put quotation marks around something I didn't say as though I did. We obviously agree on the fact that obesity isn't a good thing. I was agreeing with you. I even explicitly said that initially.
    The reason I clarified is because studies have shown that even with body condition scoring, the average pet owner considers their pets to be 1 or 2 scores thinner than they really are. The average american is unable to accurately estimate appropriate body weight in their pet dogs and cats, frankly they are so rare anymore, people call animal control when they see a dog of appropriate body weight instead of admiring a fit and athletic dog. I'm seeing this trend on an even more extreme scale in crested geckos, with animals I would consider morbidly obese being called "a little chubby" on other threads.

    I consider full figured and big boned to be equivalent statements. If you disagree, so be it, we will agree to disagree.
    www.harleygecko.com : Color, Contrast, Structure
    Specializing in Harlequins and Pinstripes in Red, Cream and Yellow
    3.9.20+ crested geckos
    Harley - my first gecko, retired and spoiled
    Pickle - unsexed leachie

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    I have seen large geckos that aren't fat. I've seen perfectly healthy and normal looking ones, like a crested I saw recently that was 60 grams, but no extra fat, just a generally larger lizard.

    On the other hand, yea there are overweight animals (lizards and any other species) and I have heard countless people thinking fat/chubby = cute. (which like someone earlier said, the double standard is funny, although that is only in our society since not all cultures see obesity as wrong. some actually force feed their children to become fat because it's seen as beautiful)

    If people want one with extra skin that's big, get a leachianus lol.

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    Just to quote Mimmieux-
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimmieux View Post
    That being said, I love JB's video on fat cresteds where she gives a lovely point in that a heavy gecko is ok as long as there isn't a large belly bulge or anything. A 55 gram gecko can be perfectly healthy, but it depends on the gecko. Just like we have our standards where if you're this tall you should look healthy at this weight.
    This is exactly what I'm talking about. As long as their weight is proportionate to their size, I think they're fine. You can't reasonably expect geckos of all sizes to be the same standard weight.
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larissa Lurid View Post
    I have seen large geckos that aren't fat. I've seen perfectly healthy and normal looking ones, like a crested I saw recently that was 60 grams, but no extra fat, just a generally larger lizard.
    Yes, this. Absolutely right.
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
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    So lets add some photos for discussion - on a scale of 1 to 9, with 5 being ideal body weight, where would you all rate these geckos?

    I'm just trying to get discussion going, the health of our pets and breeding populations is an important topic, and I don't have a standardized chart to refer to like there is for cats and dogs.

    Fuzz, 5+ years old, 45 grams:


    No name yet, almost 3 years old, 40 grams:


    Figaro, 18 months old, 27 grams:
    www.harleygecko.com : Color, Contrast, Structure
    Specializing in Harlequins and Pinstripes in Red, Cream and Yellow
    3.9.20+ crested geckos
    Harley - my first gecko, retired and spoiled
    Pickle - unsexed leachie

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