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Thread: DIY CGD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyral View Post
    I would recommend dusting the insects with calcium with D3 at every feeding, because the composition of insects is so highly skewed towards phosphorus. Highly recommend Repashy Calcium Plus for this because it contains the appropriate balance of D3 plus other minerals and vitamins.
    .13 : 1 is Very skewed

    Don't you worry about D3 overdose if used so frequently?

    I have calcium w/D3 and without. I alternate dustings to maximize calcium intake while decreasing the chance of D3 OD

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    Don't you worry about D3 overdose if used so frequently?
    Not if you think of providing a "complete meal" with every feeding, whether it's CGD (or equivalent) or live food.

    Since the body needs some form of D3 to process each calcium unit, it makes sense to supply the needed amount in every meal. Nocturnal animals such as crested geckos should be supplemented with around 4,000 IU/KG of vitamin d3. One gram of pure vitamin D3 is 40,000,000 International Units (IU), where one IU is equivalent to 0.025 μg (micrograms).

    Repashy CGD is complete and contains 6,000 IU/kg of Vitamin D3. This is slightly higher than the necessary amount, but well under the toxic dosage (around 50,000 IU/kg). For live foods, Repashy Calcium Plus also contains 6k iu/kg, and takes into account the amount of powder that actually sticks to a cricket. The remainder of the powder is also balanced with vitamins and other minerals. So when you use Calcium Plus, you are making your cricket a complete meal (minus carbs) and not just a cricket.

    Most other supplements and dusts are guesswork, and some provide a ridiculous amount of vitamin D3 that would make sense to use your approach. See this post on D3 supplements and toxicity. Repashy has done extensive research and studies on supplements to establish the right amount for his products.

    A natural diet is different, and tries to provide nutrition by a wide variety at random intervals to make up for anything left out of each individual food source. I think it's commendable to want to try that, but there are a lot of variables. It's had some success (natural diet, no supplementation) with dart frogs. However, it's different with an exclusively insectivorous, diurnal creature that can adequately process artificial UVB into D3.
    Specializing in Crested Geckos
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyral View Post
    Not if you think of providing a "complete meal" with every feeding, whether it's CGD (or equivalent) or live food.

    Since the body needs some form of D3 to process each calcium unit, it makes sense to supply the needed amount in every meal. Nocturnal animals such as crested geckos should be supplemented with around 4,000 IU/KG of vitamin d3. One gram of pure vitamin D3 is 40,000,000 International Units (IU), where one IU is equivalent to 0.025 μg (micrograms).

    Repashy CGD is complete and contains 6,000 IU/kg of Vitamin D3. This is slightly higher than the necessary amount, but well under the toxic dosage (around 50,000 IU/kg). For live foods, Repashy Calcium Plus also contains 6k iu/kg, and takes into account the amount of powder that actually sticks to a cricket. The remainder of the powder is also balanced with vitamins and other minerals. So when you use Calcium Plus, you are making your cricket a complete meal (minus carbs) and not just a cricket.

    Most other supplements and dusts are guesswork, and some provide a ridiculous amount of vitamin D3 that would make sense to use your approach. See this post on D3 supplements and toxicity. Repashy has done extensive research and studies on supplements to establish the right amount for his products.

    A natural diet is different, and tries to provide nutrition by a wide variety at random intervals to make up for anything left out of each individual food source. I think it's commendable to want to try that, but there are a lot of variables. It's had some success (natural diet, no supplementation) with dart frogs. However, it's different with an exclusively insectivorous, diurnal creature that can adequately process artificial UVB into D3.
    awesome post, love the links. Thanks

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    One thing I would worry about that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

    Doesn't the nutritional value of fruits vary between individual pieces of fruit, depending on how it was grown, transported, and stored? For example, one container of strawberries or blueberries might have been grown locally using the best fertilizers, and picked just that morning and driven to the farmer's market and eaten that same day. Another container may have been shipped in from south of the border, picked early and ripened en route, and then sat for a couple of days in the grocery store before being purchased, then sat in someone's home fridge for a few days before being eaten.

    Wouldn't this affect the nutritional value? I'm not sure, I'm asking. When labels/reports quote a certain amount of one vitamin or another, how accurate is that for a random individual piece of fruit?
    *** My "N" key is actig up. Luckily, there's no "N" in "crested gecko" or "Rhacodactylus ciliatus".***

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne241 View Post
    One thing I would worry about that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

    Doesn't the nutritional value of fruits vary between individual pieces of fruit, depending on how it was grown, transported, and stored? For example, one container of strawberries or blueberries might have been grown locally using the best fertilizers, and picked just that morning and driven to the farmer's market and eaten that same day. Another container may have been shipped in from south of the border, picked early and ripened en route, and then sat for a couple of days in the grocery store before being purchased, then sat in someone's home fridge for a few days before being eaten.

    Wouldn't this affect the nutritional value? I'm not sure, I'm asking. When labels/reports quote a certain amount of one vitamin or another, how accurate is that for a random individual piece of fruit?
    This is a very interesting question. As fruit ripens its' overall nutritional content probably doesn't change, but I believe the way the carbohydrates are stored changes to a more simple sugar, which is much more palatable. However, I am no botanist and would love if someone knew how nutritional values varied between similar fruits grown in different conditions. I would have to imagine they do. I will start looking in my botany books and see if I can find answers, but if anyone knows the solution to this puzzle I'd love a response.

    This applies not just to crested diets, but to everything made with fruit in it. How can anything, reptile or human grade, be produced with fruit and have a guaranteed analysis if fruit can be so varied?

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    btw i love that in the botany world, fruits are known as "modified differentiated ovaries"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEyebrows View Post
    This applies not just to crested diets, but to everything made with fruit in it. How can anything, reptile or human grade, be produced with fruit and have a guaranteed analysis if fruit can be so varied?
    Few if any growers test the nutrients in their produce; I think the data comes from generalized samples from years and years ago and nobody wants to spend the time and effort to re-analyze them.

    I've heard that it's best to eat produce within 24 hours. The respiration continues in the produce, and with that comes moisture loss and degradation of the nutrients. Most of the lost nutrients are vitamin C, which is fine for geckos because most non-human animals create their own vitamin C. Other lost nutrients include B-vitamins and beta carotene. Not a whole lot of studies are done on how much is lost, but food quality depends on soil conditions, harvesting practices and the method and length of transport.

    Source readings:
    http://postharvest.ucdavis.edu/datas...es/234-780.pdf
    http://www.fao.org/docrep/T0073E/T0073E01.htm

    As far as Repashy CGD goes, the fruit powder is very processed and provides very little nutrients beyond carbohydrates, which are a necessary component for Rhacs and other frugivorous reptiles. The actual nutrients are precisely re-added with human grade supplements.
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