Mouth full of Eco Earth

**Angelfyr9** · 01-08-2011, 07:51 PM

This afternoon I went in to check on Russell. I found "him" sitting with "his" mouth partially open and a mouth full of Eco Earth. I immediately put him in my 2 1/2 gal. holding tank and removed the EE, replacing it with paper towels. The only thing I could think of to do for him was to grab a 1cc syringe and "flush" out his mouth. I did that, but quickly realized that I was just filling up his gullet with distilled water. I gently stroked his throat in an upward motion and he spit out (I hope) most of it. His mouth is now closed and he licked a bit of CGD off my finger afterward. Was what I did okay? I was rather freaked out and couldn't think of anything else. I'm kicking myself because I read a thread about impaction the other day and was waiting to switch the EE out for paper towels until I cleaned his enclosure.

I got him a week ago tomorrow from Petco. He (I really don't know the sex, but he strikes me as a boy) is my first Crestie and I haven't gotten my scale yet, but he seems skinny to me. He is eating (at least eating the crickets I've given him... I can't tell about the CGD) and pooping... I had hoped my first post here would be a nice intro with cool photos taken after he had settled in

I hope I didn't stress him out too much with the camera, but I wanted to get some input from more experienced people. The pics were taken after I got the EE out of his mouth.

I hope this all makes sense... I'm still rather stressed myself.

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I wish this one weren't so blurry, but I didn't want to stress him out further.
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Russell3 by Angelfyr9, on Flickr[IMG]

**AgalychnisCallidryas** · 01-08-2011, 09:31 PM

Don't feed on loose substrates. That will stop this from happening again in the future.

**Jayne** · 01-08-2011, 10:56 PM

Uh-oh. This could mean a couple of different things, and people have been debating this for awhile. There have been several cases lately of geckos doing this and ending up dead, I hate to say. Unfortunately it isn't entirely clear what the cause is.

First, IMHO you were wise to remove the gecko from the Eco-Earth, just in case.

Second, a recent thread has suggested that this means a fungal infection or something, which should be treated asap (since the other gecko died). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was a fungal infection or mouth rot or something. I think she claimed it was a fungus and the gecko was trying to scratch the fungus off or something, and if she had simply gotten the gecko to the vet for a fungicide in time, the gecko would've lived...

And she was getting mad at people for cautioning against Eco-Earth...

then when we started discussing what that meant and what should be done in such a case, and started a poll asking about people's experiences, she came back and yelled at us that she had very clearly stated the gecko had in fact choked on the Eco-Earth.

So it still isn't clear at all what happened.

I'm not an expert, but IMHO your guy looks really skinny. Do you think it could have an infection?

Please watch it very carefully over the next couple of days. So many times these situations have ended sadly. could you take it to the vet?

**Angelfyr9** · 01-08-2011, 11:02 PM

No, I won't give him crickets on loose substrates again. As I said, I quickly removed the EE and replaced it with paper towells.

I was hoping to get some input on how I responded to the situation, as well as thoughts on whether he is too skinny.

**Angelfyr9** · 01-08-2011, 11:17 PM

Jayne - Sorry... you posted while I was responding to AgalychnisCallidryas or I would have answered you as well...

I'm confused. I *think* what happened is he grabbed a cricket and got a mouthfull of the EE at the same time. I just got him a week ago tomorrow, and just eyeballing it (I don't have a scale yet) it appears he is the same weight as when I got him. The crickets have been dissapearing and I haven't seen him rubbing his mouth (or noticed any scrapes or sores in that area). I will certainly keep an eye on him for the next few days.

The vet I prefer to use isn't open on Sundays... There is an exotic vet that I believe works on an emergency basis. I would have to call them. Do you think this is something I should watch for a few days, or try and run him in tomorrow morning?

**Jayne** · 01-09-2011, 12:59 AM

I really can't say, I'm not experienced enough and I'm not a vet, so I can't make that call. Dealing with that other person was very frustrating, first she made it sound like we were all idiots for thinking it was just a case of a mouthful of Eco Earth, then we were idiots for thinking it wasn't.

I'll just give you my own personal opinion, but if someone more experienced comes along, listen to them. (You can look at the "join date" to get a rough idea of experience. Looking at number of "thanks" can help too. Off the top of my head, Jaybee and Saille and any moderator should be trusted. I hope I don't offend anyone by not mentioning them.)

Ok, my own lil opinion, FWIW:
If:
(1) you've been feeding crickets on the EE and you have good reason to think that's what it was, and
(2) you don't see any evidence of fungus (try to find that other thread to see what that person claimed the symptoms were)
then IMHO you don't need to rush him to the ER vet tomorrow morning.

But it is your call, I'm not there looking at your guy.

Also, to my inexperienced eye your guy looks skinny. But I'm not experienced. How old is he? Maybe he's really young and that's why his head looks so big compared to his body.

Can you get him to eat some CGD? Maybe licking your finger? Maybe putting a little dab on his nose?

If you can get him to eat some CGD and he seems to be able to get it down and keep it down, that would make me feel even better about waiting and seeing how he does.

Oh yes, also search the forum for other symptoms - the ones that come to mind are lethargy, seizures, eyes dilated in odd ways (either staying dilated even after the lights are on, or one eye dilated more than the other). Seizures and odd eye dilations would make me want to rush him to the vet.

**Cid67** · 01-09-2011, 01:10 AM

He did lick a bit of cgd off their finger so that's a good sign keep doing that to see if he is able to swallow and as said keep it down. Keep a water dish in there so if he needs a drink. He does look skinny to me as well but that depends on age.

**Jayne** · 01-09-2011, 01:23 AM

Ok, take this with a grain of salt, but here's the thread I was talking about. Somewhere in here is a list of symptoms she claims is why the gecko was eating the EE, and the real reason it died:

http://www.pangeareptile.com/forums/...ad.php?t=44681

Another thing that people think might happen, is that a gecko will have a seizure and get a mouthful of EE as it's dying, not as the cause of death. You should try to determine if he's showing any symptoms indicating an infection or parasite.

**Spyral** · 01-09-2011, 03:53 AM

He does look very thin. It would be a good idea to make sure that he's hydrated and hold off on crickets until he's well established on CGD. What are your temps, humidity, etc?

**Angelfyr9** · 01-09-2011, 11:56 AM

Spyral - the humidity is at 45% (after misting at 8:15ish) and the temp is just a hair over 70. Here is his enclosure. There is a mushroom ledge on the back wall that isn't visible.

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Would it be best to move him to a smaller enclosure until he gets a bit bigger? I have a .75 gal critter keeper or a 2 1/2 gal. tank. The only problem would be a heat source, but I could stop at the pet store and get one this afternoon.

Jayne - Thank you very much for the link to the other thread. I don't see any discoloration around his mouth, but will keep an eye out for it. I will also search for other symptoms. I have been looking in on him often, and he has either been curled up amongst his vines or in his flower. He did shake his head after I "flushed" his mouth yesterday, but he just seemed to be trying to expell the EE. I found a poo this morning with EE in it, which I'm taking as a sign that whatever he managed to ingest is passing through.

Cid - He has a water dish and did eat more CGD this morning. I put a tiny drop on his nose and he licked it off (I did this three or four times before he got fed up with me). He also took several drops of water, and when I put him back in his enclosure he licked some droplets off one of his plants.

Thank you everyone for your responses. Since he is drinking and did eat some CGD, I'm going to wait and call my vet tomorrow to see what he thinks.