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Thread: "Matrix particulars"?

  1. #1
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    Default "Matrix particulars"?

    "Matrix particulars" were mentioned in an old post, referring to something seen on what I assume to be infertile eggs. Can someone explain to me what these are, and what they mean? I know on my infertile eggs, lately, I have noticed little crytalline looking shapes on the shell (especially visible when candling), and that the shell feels rougher. The name "matrix particulars" just sounds like something that could describe these characteristics.

    I've had a frustrating start to my breeding season. My female that laid me three clutches of good eggs one after another (until I cooled her last season) has just laid her third clutch of what look to be infertile eggs tonight. The male she was bred with this season is different from the one she was with last season, so I am wondering if he shoots blanks. This would really suck because he is gorgeous. I should mention that the female had something like an 8 month cooling and that I don't know her age, but I just don't see how this could really be a problem with her. I have another female that was either going to go with this same male or a different one that I have never bred and I had finally chosen to put her with the other one, but now I'm thinking about putting her with the same male and doing a breeding group just so I can find out whether this is a problem with him. Any suggestions? What would you do with a male before deciding that he is infertile?

    Thank you.

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    Im not sure but maybe the male just isnt getting the job done. If the female is proven that would be my first guess.
    STEVEN

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    When I was posting about Clara's clutch having been laid without "matrix particulars", I basically meant that there were "no particular issues with the shell matrix".

    I have a couple females that have laid eggs with the texture you describe. It is basically an undercalcification of the egg shell- mom decided to lay them before they were formed to the best possible outer surface, really. I have two eggs incubating that are entirely covered in poorly calcified shell, so poor that there are actually very small holes through the shell in places, but the babies inside candle well and they're due in about a month (they jiggle around in there and everything!). This female is relatively new to our collection, but the guy I got her from has had her for many years and informed me that at the beginning of her season, she will usually lay a first clutch of infertiles, and then eventually work her way up to normal looking eggs. True enough, her first clutch was bad, second clutch looks terrible but is fertile and well, and in her third clutch one egg was patchy with "windows" of frost-on-the-window style undercalcification and the fourth egg was pristine.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the shape or texture of the egg, what matters is that it candles well on the inside. Have you candled the eggs to check for signs of fertility? It may be difficult to tell if the eggs are fertile if the egg's texture is so crackled and distorted until it reaches about stage 2-3 in my diagram.

    Here's the diagram I made some time ago on how to candle eggs/what to look for, perhaps this may be helpful to you:



    Infertile eggs:



    Tomorrow I'll take some quick snaps of the various eggs I've got sitting on the shelf and see if they match up to what you're talking about.
    I gave my geckos up... but I want to come back :c

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    Thank you so much! I generally knew what to look for for fertile eggs, but I've never seen those figures before and they're helpful. Also, I'm still pretty new at this breeding thing, having only ever had one successful pairing and six good eggs. It's been so long since I've seen good eggs now that I worry I don't remember what to look for! All six of the eggs that she laid with this male have been undecalcified in the way that you described, with the crystalline shapes. My camera (or perhaps my photography skills) is not nice enough to capture the shapes. I'm afraid to say that I already threw out the first four. I just wasn't seeing anything in the eggs when candling for a whole month. I could see patches of red here or there, but no real cheerio or circular shape, and it seemed like the spots of red I could see while candling were also visible on the outside of the shell (on the outside of the shell, however, they were darker colored). So I don't really know what's been going on. Maybe I'll keep these two for longer. This female never laid uncalcified eggs with the other male I paired her with. I have noticed, though, that with these undercalcified eggs, she had been laying the clutches closer together. This last clutch was laid 2 or 3 days short of a month since the last clutch. Last season, with the other male, I remember each clutch being laid a month and a half or so apart.

    Frustrating!

    Anyway, thank you so much for responding to my post.

    EDIT:

    I wanted to mention something else about the strange eggs. After I'd incubated them awhile, they became gradually more discolored and developed a "slimy" texture. They also didn't seem to be changing in size.

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    They sound infertile to me, unfortunately. I just threw away an infertile egg that was looking exactly like you describe in your edit. It was getting progressively more yellow, and definitely slimy. None of my fertile eggs have ever done either of those things, and I've always been able to find the cheerio.
    .. Familiar Exotics .. and related Blog ..


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    I took the liberty of snapping some shots anyway (I had a hatchling pop out today and I'm wanting to catch it's sibling in the process, so I keep going down there to check, haha).

    Here is the second clutch of eggs that Novo has laid, which look just terrible. They're bizarrely huge, on top of their weird texture.

    The first egg here just shows what's going on with the undercalcified shell:



    This second egg is the worst horror of them all so far... It has a copious amount of tiny, tiny holes in the shell, from which tiny little mushrooms have sprouted into a thin fuzzy forest over some parts of the egg. One particularly large hole has started to ooze egg matter, which has kind of crusted into a semi-hardened plug. The babies inside are at the stage where they are beginning to squirm around and stretch the shell, but the shell can't take that kind of punishment because of its weak structure, so this one started to leak. The baby inside is still alive and well and jiggles like a happy bugger every time I stick a flashlight to it though.



    The mama who laid 'em was out and about and looking like she wanted her picture taken, so I obliged for her.. Teehee.

    I gave my geckos up... but I want to come back :c

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    Oh no, not the mold forest! RUNNNNNN!!!! Thanks for sharing, great pics. And wow, momma is gooooooorgeous. I have a male who would go nicely with her.. *whistles*

    .. Familiar Exotics .. and related Blog ..


    *** 7.16.10 Cresties *** 4.5 Gargs *** 1.0 Ibera Greek Tortoise *** 0.1 Rubber Boa *** 0.2.1.2 Mourning Geckos *** 2.1.3 E. agricolae *** 1.2.2.7 L. williamsi *** 1.1 C. sarasinorum ***

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    Quote Originally Posted by juliethegr8t View Post
    Oh no, not the mold forest! RUNNNNNN!!!! Thanks for sharing, great pics. And wow, momma is gooooooorgeous. I have a male who would go nicely with her.. *whistles*

    He sure is nice- Looks a lot like the man she's with now! ->Sexy man McWedgins
    I gave my geckos up... but I want to come back :c

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    Ooo you're right! They could be twins. He is definitely a sexy McWedgins. *giggle*
    .. Familiar Exotics .. and related Blog ..


    *** 7.16.10 Cresties *** 4.5 Gargs *** 1.0 Ibera Greek Tortoise *** 0.1 Rubber Boa *** 0.2.1.2 Mourning Geckos *** 2.1.3 E. agricolae *** 1.2.2.7 L. williamsi *** 1.1 C. sarasinorum ***

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    What would you do with a male before deciding that he is infertile?
    last year i had a 1.1 pairing that gave me nothing but blanks. the male was my very first gecko, so i was rather heartbroken with the idea that he was a dud. the lady he was with was a virgin that year so i decided i would try one more year with just that 1.1 pairing before trying another female. luckily, after a full season of blanks, this year has been golden.
    another option to consider is adding another girl to the pair, if both females spit blanks then there's more reason to suspect the male. unfortunately, it's a bit of work to prove complete infertility.

    True enough, her first clutch was bad, second clutch looks terrible but is fertile and well, and in her third clutch one egg was patchy with "windows" of frost-on-the-window style undercalcification and the fourth egg was pristine.
    i've also got a couple girls that go through this pattern. they are also both older, which is what i've been attributing it to.
    -jULIE-
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