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Thread: CALCIUM AND VITAMIN D3 -What you need to know.

  1. #21
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    Default Here are the calcium-phosphorous ratios in many common fruits

    Hey all, I thought it might be helpful to share the calcium-phosphorus ratios in many common fruits so that if you find yourself out of CGD and need some emergency fruits to feed for a while, you can feed them knowing the exact balance of calcium and phosphorous in the fruit. FYI an optimal ratio of calcium to phosphorous in any food item is 2 parts calcium (by weight) to 1 part phosphorous (by weight). I got these numbers from a nutritional study that my exotic reptile vet recommended I take a look at. The list is in descending order. Remember you can combine (in the right ratio) the fruits high in Phosphorous with fruits high in calcium to get a balanced mixture.

    Papaya----------4.5 :1
    Raspberries-------1.8 :1
    Blackberries-------1.5 :1
    Grapes------------1.4 :1
    Mango-------------1 : 1
    Pineapple-----------1 : 1
    Apple---------------1 : 1
    Pears----------------1 : 1.2
    Cherries--------------1 : 1.2
    Strawberries----------1 : 1.3
    Guavas----------------1 : 1.3
    Apricots----------------1 : 1.4
    Blueberries--------------1 : 1.6
    Summer Squash----------1 : 1.7
    Pumpkin------------------1 : 2.1
    Peaches------------------1 : 2.2
    Banana--------------------1 : 3.1
    Andrew Schnell
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  3. #22
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    Andrew - I believe that Papaya is high in Calcium but I hate to assume so I'm going to ask. The first listing is the calcium while the 2ed is the Phosphorous, correct? If that is the case... this list would explain why animals feed on a diet of banana & peach baby food (or fresh) tend to get MBD faster than people who feed a mixed variety.
    Last edited by Lunar Gecko; 07-09-2010 at 05:29 PM.
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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar Gecko View Post
    Andrew - I believe that Papaya is high in Calcium but I hate to assume so I'm going to ask. The first listing is the calcium while the 2ed is the Phosphorous, correct? If that is this list would explain why animals feed on a diet of banana & peach baby food (or fresh) tend to get MBD faster than people who feed a mixed variety.
    Yep its calcium : phosphorous. I mentioned calcium before phosphorous every time I talked about the ratio, but I never said it outright I suppose, so thanks
    Andrew Schnell
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    ∞.∞.∞ - Rhacodactylus "all-of-'em-us"
    And many other species of Diplodactyline and Carphodactyline gecko

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar Gecko View Post
    If that is this list would explain why animals feed on a diet of banana & peach baby food (or fresh) tend to get MBD faster than people who feed a mixed variety.
    I was thinking the same thing in the other post on fruit! Those seem to be the most popular baby foods fed.
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  6. #25
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    Exclamation Informational Warning

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Parks View Post
    I have never heard of a substantiated case of vitamin d3 overdose in any reptile (and by substantiated I mean a vet conducted blood tests, not someone blaming a mysterious death on d3)...
    You may want to amend that statement after you read my post lol

    The following is an informational warning on calcium products which include D3.

    Whatever you do DO NOT USE "REPCAL Calcium with Vitamin D3 (Phosphorous Free) Ultrafine powder". This is an extremely dangerous product, I have a photocopy of a letter that the FDA sent to my Vet warning him about the potential dangers of a product that had the exact same concentrations of D3 and calcium as the RepCal product I listed above. When used as directed (aka a 0.330 gram 5 week old cricket gets dusted with the RepCal supplement, and an average of 0.045g of supplement gets added in the process of dusting), the cricket's vitamin D3 content becomes 55 times the safe limit of Vit D3!!! The recommended safe limit of Vit D3 is 5,000 IU/kg of food (dry weight). My vet has done plenty of lizard, gecko, and chameleon Necropsies in which it was determined the cause of death was massive over-calcification of the soft tissues, so this isn't "just talk". My vet's website (Dr. Mark Burgess) with all his info available = http://www.swanimalhospital.net/

    Here are pictures of the letter from the FDA, the product name has been blacked out for liability reasons, but you can go look at the REPCAL label and see that the nutritional content of the supplement discussed in the letter matches that of the REPCAL product.




    Anyone with a scale and a calculator can do their own study of any supplement, given that the label for the product is honest about the nutritional content (which is not always the case).
    Andrew Schnell
    1.0.0 - Eunectes murinus (Green Anaconda)
    0.1.0 - Chamydosaurus kingii (Frilled Dragon)
    ∞.∞.∞ - Rhacodactylus "all-of-'em-us"
    And many other species of Diplodactyline and Carphodactyline gecko

  7. #26
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    I will agree with you that the Rep Cal does have wayyy too much d3 in it. I originally posted this in response to all of the emails I get saying "whats wrong with my gecko". I get a ton of them everyday. The main problem is MBD from improper diet and/or improper supplementation. Many of the people feed CGD but supplement with undusted crickets or crickets dusted with calcium and no d3. Others feed baby food unsupplemented or improperly supplemented.

    Stay away from Rep-Cal, but if you feed insects frequently and don't supplement with calcium and d3 you will eventually run into a problem. People need to realize that d3 is necessary and shouldn't be demonized. In the case of rep-cal, too much of a good thing can be bad.

  8. #27
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    I know some people mix the repti cals together for this very reason. With D3 & no D3 50/50.
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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Parks View Post
    I will agree with you that the Rep Cal does have wayyy too much d3 in it. I originally posted this in response to all of the emails I get saying "whats wrong with my gecko". I get a ton of them everyday. The main problem is MBD from improper diet and/or improper supplementation. Many of the people feed CGD but supplement with undusted crickets or crickets dusted with calcium and no d3. Others feed baby food unsupplemented or improperly supplemented.

    Stay away from Rep-Cal, but if you feed insects frequently and don't supplement with calcium and d3 you will eventually run into a problem. People need to realize that d3 is necessary and shouldn't be demonized. In the case of rep-cal, too much of a good thing can be bad.
    Oh I completely agree, I wasn't at all trying to undermine your OP, but rather add to it in a constructive way. I agree that the number 1 priority as far as calcium and D3 levels are concerned is supplementing in the first place, especially with crested geckos which eat CGD mostly, an underdose of Calcium and D3 with insect feedings would do more harm than an overdose, especially in growing animals or breeding females.
    Andrew Schnell
    1.0.0 - Eunectes murinus (Green Anaconda)
    0.1.0 - Chamydosaurus kingii (Frilled Dragon)
    ∞.∞.∞ - Rhacodactylus "all-of-'em-us"
    And many other species of Diplodactyline and Carphodactyline gecko

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar Gecko View Post
    I know some people mix the repti cals together for this very reason. With D3 & no D3 50/50.
    That's better than the D3 product by itself, but mixing half and half would still yield a dose of D3 on crickets that was 27.5 times what the safe limit of D3 is in a food source (safe limit = 5,000 IU/kg Dry Food).
    Andrew Schnell
    1.0.0 - Eunectes murinus (Green Anaconda)
    0.1.0 - Chamydosaurus kingii (Frilled Dragon)
    ∞.∞.∞ - Rhacodactylus "all-of-'em-us"
    And many other species of Diplodactyline and Carphodactyline gecko

  11. #30
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    (safe limit = 5,000 IU/kg Dry Food).
    Is this a standard? How was it set?

    Also, could you explain what the IU/kg means. It probably doesn't mean much to most people.
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