Rhacodactylus parasite project

[Dr Alan]

Here's a chance to get free fecal flotations done on your Rhacs. In conjunction with Dr Rhonda Pinckney (St George's University, Grenada) and Dr Jean Pare (Texas A&M), I am working on a project to identify internal parasites and try to ascertain the extent of infection in CB Rhacs. They do get them, and I have attached a photomicrograph of a parasitic ova recently found here in fecal specimens from R ciliatus and R auriculatus. The egg pictured happens to be from Pharyngodon spp., a common lizard pinworm (Oxyurid). So send me your Rhac poop; just a little bit - one fecal mass from an animal - is enough. Send individual samples if possible but group specimens are OK as long as they are so identified. Also send me your web addy and I will send you results by email. Seal the fresh poop sample (nothing older than three days) into a small sandwich bag with the date obtained, species (crestie, 'goyle, sara, chahoua, or leachie), and individual animal ID. Put the baggie in a regular business envelope and mail it to me: should take just one stamp unless you are sending a crapload of samples. (Don't you love a pun?) Keep it in the 'fridge, NOT the freezer, until you drop it in the mail and don't mail it on a Friday or Saturday. For goodness' sake, don't label it "lizard sh*t" or the post office may refuse to accept it. When I start to get pooped out Couldn't resist another pun, I'll put up a post telling you all to STOP. Send to:

Alan Slack, DVM
New England Animal Hospital
2 Pleasant St
Waterville, ME 04901-7512

Put a little note on the bottom right corner of the envelope saying "Gecko Project" so my office manager doesn't get unwelcome surprises. And please, Rhacodactylus samples only. Thanks, all.

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/3747516/103726137.jpg

[KevinS]

Thanks for taking the time to do this, it should be very helpful in contributing to our knowledge of these lizards. :D

[ramanth]

And I just cleaned their enclosure this morning. Well poop. ;) :lol:

I'll have to wait for the next round. :D

[Chao0104]

Likewise, Thanks for making this topic. :D

[crestedgeckogirly]

Due to my recent loss, I'll be sure to send you samples. I want to make sure the medicine I'm giving them is working. And, Thank you for the time and effort you are putting into this. I really appreciate it. I'll probably collect this weekend and send them out on Monday.

[Dr Alan]

Matt asked me a very good queestion this morning having to do with whether these fecal flotations will show Entamoeba infections. The answer is no in most cases. A summary of what Matt and I discussed follows and I think it's important to understand the difficulties here.

Short answer; will Entamoeba cysts show? Not often enough to consider a traditional fecal flotation a reliable indicator. In fact I would hazard that the cysts would almost never show in a regular flotation.

Following is a quote from an article regarding human infection with entamoeba.........

"Traditionally E. histolytica is diagnosed by microscopy of the stool through identification of either cysts or motiletrophozoites. As previously mentioned, this technique is neither sensitive nor specific.

The ‘gold standard’ has been considered amoebic culture and zymodeme determination although it is known to be far from 100%sensitive. Recent advances have made new diagnostic tools available to the clinician including serologic anti-body tests and the commercial availability of stool E. histolytica-specific antigen testing. Antibody tests are generally used to confirm positive stool ova and parasite examinations or antigen tests as the currently available serologic tests are unable to differentiate acuteinfection from past infection. In addition to the clinically available tools, other diagnostic tools have become available for research including PCR, sputum antigen testing, and serum antigen testing by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay "

Unfortunately, culturing the stool from suspect geckos is going to be prohibitively expensive even for individually sick animals (not to mention the fact that by the time fecal culture results are in, the animal is going to be either dead or recovering anyway), and certainly much too expensive to be used as a screening tool. And the expense and mechanics (how do you get enough blood from a 35 gram animal?) of serologic (blood) testing mean that this also is going to be unavailable. Establishing a post mortem (after death) diagnosis is going to happen when people do what Randy May did and necropsy affected geckos. And the work that he did involved some relatively costly diagnostics (histopathology).

It's my feeling that subclinical (inapparent: not causing visible illness) amebiasis may possibly be present in some normal appearing geckos - maybe a lot of them, possibly more so in those raised in groups over natural-type substrates. What circumstances trigger clinical illness (stress, other illnesses or parasitic infections, shipping, cooling, reproductive stress, diet changes etc) is anybody's guess. I think that affected geckos (E invadens: presumptive)are virtually certain to have serious diarrhea (the common name for this disease is humans is amoebic dysentery) , but even that finding is hit or miss because of the variety of substrates used that may disguise or hide evidence of diarrhea, and because of the high variability in the appearance and character of "normal" stools from crested geckos and other Rhacs.

IMO any gecko that has unexplained weight loss or diarrhea (or both) should be presumed to have Entamoebiasis and treated with metronidazole (Flagyl). A wet mount preparation of fresh stool from a suspect case may show cysts or mobile trophozoites, but not always.

So, will I tell you if I find it? Yes. But will I find it? Almost certainly not. The purpose of this study is looking for the larger gut parasites.

[stage9]

I will send you some of my crestie crap! Now i just need to find some, lol. Also, I am interested in learning how to do basic fecals because I am concidering geiing a microscope. How difficult is it to do?
Thanks
-Stage9

[Haroldo]

I will send you some of my crestie crap! Now i just need to find some, lol. Also, I am interested in learning how to do basic fecals because I am concidering geiing a microscope. How difficult is it to do?
Thanks
-Stage9

I apologize Doc if I'm stepping outta line, but Stage9, honestly the hardest part about doing fecals is buying all the supplies. You'll need a decent scope with at least a 4x & 10x objective. (I personally opted for a vintage Steindorff Berlin binocular w/ 4x, 10x, 40x, and 100x objectives including adjustable table and phase contrast) You'll need some vials or test tubes, microscope slides, coverslips, fecal float solution (Homemade or bought) and lugol's iodine as an option if you want to stain the slides. I don't think the "doing" a fecal is that bad, you just need a good reference book to id some of the parasites. "Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Roger Klingenberg is a good place to start.

[Dr Alan]

How difficult is it to do?


I don't think the "doing" a fecal is that bad

Depends. There is an experience factor and a comfort factor in terms of using a microscope effectively that comes easier after you've done it a thousand times. Another issue is the common presence of pollen in fecal flotations of Rhacs which happens all the time, since pollen is part of MRP diets. Pollen is easily confused with parasite ova. I have licensed techs who have had training in fecals who still have problems interpreting slides from mammals and herps. The mechanics of doing fecals are straightforward. Interpretation of results less so.......

[Haroldo]

So true Doc...which is why I will be pestering you non-stop until Dooms Day. :wink: :lol:

[ramanth]

Thing 1 pooped for me (in my hands) last night so I dropped it in the mail this morning. :D

[infernal_star]

My female crested just did a number 2 in her temporary cage when I was cleaning her cage. So I got a treat for ya Dr. Alan, it's still warm!

[HelicopterPilot]

I sent my sample through the mail Thursday and I was wondering if you received it.

I am the one with the email adress lio_convoy.

[Dr Alan]

I sent my sample through the mail Thursday and I was wondering if you received it.

I am the one with the email adress lio_convoy. Not yet. I generally run the samples and report the same day they're received, so I'll let you know..........

[HelicopterPilot]

Im guessing it should come in later today. Unless mail from Cali to your area takes a looooong time.

[infernal_star]

Dr. Alan do you pm, email, or mail us results? I'm just curious, cause I sent mine and haven't heard back. Wondering if it's just that it's being mailed back to me.

[Dr Alan]

Dr. Alan do you pm, email, or mail us results? I'm just curious, cause I sent mine and haven't heard back. Wondering if it's just that it's being mailed back to me. Email or PM, usually the same day. Don't believe I have received yours as yet. When did you mail it?

[infernal_star]

Sunday, so really Monday morning. It should have been there by now, but maybe it'll come by like Saturday. It was sent from Flint, MI if that helps.

[Dr Alan]

Since the contest is still running..... I thought I'd post some pictures of eggs fond in some typical Rhac fecal findings.

This is Ophidascaris spp., a nematode (roundworm) egg.
http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/7462792/128751932.jpg

The following are all variants/species of Pharyngodon. These are oxyurid (pinworm) eggs.

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/7462792/128751963.jpg

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/7462792/128752061.jpg

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/7462792/128752068.jpg

The following images are of protozoan oocysts (coccidia, maybe Eimeria, but not positively identified. The images are of the same oocysts in increasing order of magnification in the photomicrographs.

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/7462792/128752131.jpg

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/7462792/128752188.jpg

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/7462792/128754300.jpg

The last two images are pseudoparasites, common in fruit-eating animals' fecals. They are pollen grains and are about the same size as nematode eggs. This can be very confusing.

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/7462792/128752046.jpg

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL212/1939938/7462792/128751990.jpg

[Dragontown]

How can such pretty colors be so darned evil? :)

[infernal_star]

*shows Dragontown a picture of his ex's eyes to help with understanding the connection between pretty colors and evilness*


P.S. Sorry, couldn't resist and no offense to any ladies on here (it's a two way street).

[Dragontown]

LOL.......... Infernal... the nail on the head! There's such a thing as perspective and you just put it all into perspective! ALOT of the ex's were pretty-eyed parasites! ;-)

[infernal_star]

lol, was hoping you'd like that :)

[Dragontown]

lol, was hoping you'd like that :)

Female cresties never ***** at you.... not true with all animals.... see other posting with the cat!

[mike420]

Ok, well one of my crestie pooped, but in the water bowl, can I take it out of the water bowl and send it in, or would it be sitting in the water bowl have some affect on the crap or something?
Thanks, still trying to get a fresh one from my other crestie too.

[Adam105]

Are you still requesting more samples to be sent?
-Adam

[Dr Alan]

No Adam, the "project" such as it was is over. If you need fecals done, and in an effort to add to my database, I will analyze any specimens you care to send for a very modest ($5/specimen) fee. That really doesn't do much but cover material costs for me. Fecal flotations are typically $12-25 depending on what part of the country you live in.

[livialeigh]

Dr. Alan,

I see the last post on this thread was over four months ago. Are you still doing the $5/specimen fee? I'd be happy to send you more if you are still collecting.

Thanks,
Olivia

[Dr Alan]

Dr. Alan,

I see the last post on this thread was over four months ago. Are you still doing the $5/specimen fee? I'd be happy to send you more if you are still collecting.
Send your "poo" along, Olivia. Thinking about contacting Mike Rowe on "Dirty Jobs", lol

[livialeigh]

Send your "poo" along, Olivia. Thinking about contacting Mike Rowe on "Dirty Jobs", lol

Ha ha. I have yet to see that show but I heard it's great. Should I write you a check out to you for the stuff? Or do you prefer something else?
:D

Olivia

[peublan]

Dr. Allen on Dirty Jobs that would be too cool! I wonder if Matt would make up some PANGEA t-shirts for a shameless plug!
Dale

[Elfwise]

I need to second the cash/check/paypal money question. I'll have to get my parents in if its one of the last two. But I've got a gecko that's starting to worry me a bit. Just too thin. My normal vet is semi-retired I think and out of reach at present, at least.

[lunargecko]

These post are from a very long while ago Dr. Allen. Are you still willing to do the 5$ fecal sample?
Thanks,