Baby beardies and their behaviour? [Archive] - The Pangea Forums

AneesasMuse

12-27-2006, 01:28 AM

I am not at all familiar with Bearded Dragons, but I saw a little fella today that just didn't seem right. He was about 4-6 inches full length and he had crickets all over him. This disturbed me and I went and told one of the employees about it. He said that he didn't think the little guy was gonna make it anyway cuz he sits with his head in a weird position constantly... kind of like it's waiting for something to fall out of the sky or something. It just looks up all the time.

Is this normal? Is it a sign that something is wrong with it?

I've been going to this particular privately owned pet store for almost 10 years, so I am quite confident that if something is wrong with it they will let me bring it home and rehab it. But, is there something wrong with it?

Any suggestions or sites with great info, as far as husbandry and so on, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Reptile4life

12-27-2006, 03:03 AM

Okay I am a very avid bearded dragon owner and that little beardie is ins ome serious trouble. He should not have crickets all of him and the fact that his head was just looking wierd was a sign something was wrong or he was trying to escape the crix.

Bearded dragons are omnivores- There diet should have vegetable matter in it as well as insects. I recomend silkworms/goliath hornworms. Their food shoudl be dusted with a calcium supplement as well as a multi-vitamin. There husbandry should be a substrate that will not harm them. The best is paper towel. They need a tank that is no bigger then a 50 gallon breeder. The temps in the cage should be 90-95. They do not drink standing water so they must be misted everyday. They should get a bath 3-5 times a week. When bath time comes around for a little guy make sure the water does not go past his back. They need a UVB light which is the ultraviolent rays from the sun. I suggest repti sun 10.0. When summer time comes around you can hang them on your window to get the sun too. Dont put the gace by a window thinking he will get sun becuase the glass will reflect it. When you get the light make sure that you take the plastic covering off of it. When breeding them they need a 70+ tank. I hope this helps. You can look here for more info: www.reptilerooms.com www.beautifuldragons.com. You can also ask me anytime you need help. Aim- Fearl3ss465 or just PM me. They are awsome animals if you can save him I would do it.

ReptileChick

12-27-2006, 08:41 AM

A few corrections to the above post. A baby bearded dragon's basking spot the SURFACE temp should be 110-115 F, an adult 105-110 F. On the cool end the AMBIENT temp should be around 85 F. I would suggest Ceramic Tile as substrate. Easy to clean, cheap, and safe. Paper towels and newspaper also works well. Make sure to feed crickets no bigger than the space between the eyes. And with babies, they need to be fed however many it wants in 15 min. 2-3x a day, and adults just need about 25 crickets a week. Make sure to offer greens, such as Collard Greens, Mustard Greens, and Turnip Greens. I would stick to those. Silkworms are a great feeder, as they are soft and you don't have to worry about size too much. They are also more nutritious. Don't know about feeding Goliath worms as a staple though. For heat, I would just get a clear house bulb, and mess with the wattages until you get the right temps. You don't need the ones from pet stores. These serve the same purpose and are cheaper. I would suggest www.dragonzone.rapidboards.com. That's a great place for information. Good luck!

Reptile4life

12-27-2006, 12:39 PM

Katie, temp underneath the basking light should be 110 but the floor temp of the hot spot should be 95. I think ceramic tile is a awsome choice. Do you know how to instal it? I have never used it before but have heard of it being done. Goialth horn worms can be used a stple becuase acutally they have alot more nutrition then any other insect. There was a vendor at NARBC Chicago that was selling them. I never liked using the house bulbs becuause they dont last as long. I like the bulbs made by zoomed.

MiNuRvA

12-27-2006, 01:33 PM

I have seen the looking toward the sky thing in dogs, cats, and chickens, but never in herps. In mammals and birds it's an indication of an inner ear infection. How serious and permanent the damage is is directly related to how long and how bad the infection is. He needs to see a vet for proper diagnosis, but I would guess that it's what's called vestibular syndrome. You know how when you get bad head congestion and your ears feel stopped up and it makes you feel dizzy when you stand up? The inner ear helps control equillibrium and keeps you upright and walking straight. If it's messed up or compromised because of infection it can make an animal feel like things are leaning sideways, so they compensate by turning their heads. I once had a cat with it and his head was permanently cocked sideways. If they let you take him get him to the vet ASAP.

ms_ramie22

12-28-2006, 03:17 PM

also, I used to raise bearded dragons years ago, and unless they have changed over the years, they will drink from a bowl and should have water available at all times....

Colleen07

12-28-2006, 03:40 PM

i know beardies like to drink from their bath water a lot.

Reptile4life

12-28-2006, 04:32 PM

Yea I have a adult and he wont drink from standing water

Colleen07

12-28-2006, 04:38 PM

My sister has 2 and both will drink up when put in there bath, also on the beardie forum I'm a part of, I'm pretty sure every dragon will usually drink some of the bath water.

Phantom Dragon

12-28-2006, 04:55 PM

Sorry to sound like a downer, but usually when babies spin around and tilt their head back, they don't make it. Poor diet for the parents and/or inbreeding can cause babies to come out this way. Diet is super important. I like using crickets and roaches as a staple because you can always alter the gut content.If you put a water bowl in the corner of the cage, the dragon should have no problem finding it. Josh

AneesasMuse

12-28-2006, 06:29 PM

Well, you guys are awesome! I don't have the little fella just yet, but the manager should be in today and I'm going to the store in just a few minutes to see if the baby is salvageable and he will release him to me. Thanks for all the info and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions once the little tyke is here with me. Let's just hope he's still "here" period.

I'll post back in a few...

I've turned FTS victims around with my "special" diets and what not, so I am hoping I can do something for this little one... even though he is a different species altogether. I'll do my best!

MiNuRvA

12-28-2006, 06:37 PM

Good luck!! Definitely keep us updated. They're such cute babies!

waldo

12-28-2006, 08:07 PM

The tilted head can also be a sign of an upper respiratory infection, I was given a baby beardie by a pet store who had the same problem. She was looking up at a 90 degree angel, could hardly walk a straight line and flopped around the cage. After being treated with baytril for a couple weeks she was fine and is a wonderful pet.

I will PM you with some more info.

AneesasMuse

12-28-2006, 08:28 PM

Well... here's the verdict: I got "a" baby, but not "the" baby. They sold someone that little sick fella with the head tilt. I guess they'll be back for a refund in a day or so, if they don't find help for it or even know that it needs help. Geeeesh!

I do have the last little fella that was in there and he can't stand up on his legs. He just flops down... some legs underneath him and the others at odd dangly angles. He just sits in my hand, helpless. He does look at me when I talk to him, though. He's just under 6 inches total length, and a plain or normal beardie pattern... I guess... Grey'ish with variant browns, etc.

I named him Hugo :D He's in a lizard box with paper towel and a dish full of fresh kale and dandelion leaves, chopped to his bite size and spritzed a bit. I have him on a heat tape and a uvb light just within 6 inches above his head. He has three branches and a coconut hide. What else does he need tonight? When should I try to give him some dusted crickets again... I think he's probably sick of crickets after not eating anything else for days. :roll: Do I only dust his crickets with Tri Cal and Multi Vits or does his veggies need calcium? (I'm going to read those care sheets now, I promise. Heh!) I'm just excited and scared and worried right now.

I need to find some thermometers to make sure he's warm enough on both ends... they're here some place. #-o

Thanks again for everyone's help. I look forward to the pm help, as well... thanks, waldo. ;) And now, I just watch and worry and wait... hoping that he gets better with all my efforts.

Reptile4life

12-28-2006, 10:06 PM

Great job I am very happy for you. Yes you need to dust everything but make sure you switch off on doing the multi vits and calcium. Do calcium 4 times a week and multi vits 3 times a week. When are you getting him a tank? He needs a UVA bulb which is the heat light. Dont hold him for a little bit. He is alreayd stressted to the max wiht being sick and moving.

I would really suggest calling animal control on who ever you bought him from becuase they are not taking care of them. You need to take action so the animals stop suffering.

AneesasMuse

12-29-2006, 01:31 PM

Hugo made it through the night and is sleeping comfortably on my chest right this minute. He ate and had a warm bath. When I went in the critter room this morning, he was standing on his hindlegs, watching my two Crested adult girls. :D

I'm off to get his lights and dig therm., and set up his bigger viv... the 20gL is going to be his "nursery" for as long as he'll fit (probably not long).

Thanks everyone! I'll try to get some pics soon. :D

Reptile4life

12-29-2006, 01:40 PM

Great to here the little guy made it through the night!!!!!!!!!!!

ReptileChick

12-29-2006, 07:16 PM

What I have always read is the surface temp. is 110-115, never 95. I have never read anything talking about it that way.
Also, I'd up the calcium a bit, and make sure it has vit. D3.
The 20 gallon will be great, but he'll need to be moved up to at least a 40 gallon, but bigger is always better. The problem with a water bowl is if it isn't shallow (and sometimes, even if it is), they can drown in it. They will also defecate in the water, so it will need to be changed out daily. I would just give him a nice warm soak for about 30 minutes 3-5 times a week. They will sometimes drink the water, and they will absorb water through their vents. Make sure the water only reaches his shoulders, and NEVER leave him alone.
For the UV, get at least an 8.0, but 10.0 is best. House bulbs have always worked for me, and work for a long time. I guess it just matters which brand. It's cheaper and a lot easier that way. And I would get the fixtures for the lights at Home Depot, even for the UV light. It's a TON cheaper there, and works just the same. The UV fixtures at pet stores can range in the $40 and up. At the hardware store I've seen bigger sizes for for $16.
Don't keep him from eating crickets. That is the majority of their diet when they are so young. He needs as many crickets as he'll eat in 15 minutes, 3 times a day. Also, when he gets old (about 6-8 months) start slowly down with crickets. Once he reaches a year it should only be 25 crickets a week. And the calcium, once they reach that age, should be given 6 days a week, and the multi vit. only 1 day a week.
Wow, anything else I have forgotten? Oh, Goliath worms probably shouldn't be fed until he is older, as they are HUGE. But I'm sure he will love them when he is older. I would go with roaches though. Buy a bunch, and let them colonize, and then you won't need to buy more, and as someone else said, they can be gut loaded easier.
Good luck, and remember to visit dragonzone.rapidboards.com!!!

Reptile4life

12-29-2006, 07:36 PM

I personally dont like roaches for my beardies becuase of the fact that they ahve such a hard exo skeleton that it is hard for them to digest. That is just my point of view. As for the gooliath hornworms, you can get them small and grow them as big as you want them.

To grow them small just slow down the feeding and lower the temps.

AneesasMuse

12-29-2006, 08:58 PM

When I got home this afternoon, Hugo had a present for me... :D
My little fella POOO'd a big knockin poo and it was colorful (black and white) and pretty big for such a little guy. He left me two, actually, but the other one was more chalky white and much smaller.

He's all set up with his proper lights and he feels warmer when I touch him, too. He was just clammy and cold all of yesterday. He's had one bath and I will give him another before lights out tonight. I'm trying crickets several times a day and he hasn't eaten any yet, so I offer him a little supp'd up Gerber chicken also.

Right now, my concern is to keep him hydrated and strong enough to continue improving. He'll eat the crickets when he's ready. I bought a bunch of collards, turnips, mustards and butternut squash today... he has plenty of variety when he's ready to try new stuff.

I'm just really happy that he made it through the night and that he POOO'd!! :D We'll take it a little at a time and hope for the best! Thanks for all your help, too. We are both grateful!! :)

ReptileChick

12-29-2006, 09:39 PM

Roaches have a softer exoskeleton than crickets, actually. May not seem like it, but they do, and are a lot more healthier.

I'm glad he pooed for you! That's always a good sign...sorta...lol! j/k. When are we going to see pics of the baby??!?! I demand them!!! lol! Good luck, and it looks like you are doing a great job. :PDT_03:

AneesasMuse

12-29-2006, 09:50 PM

Thanks, Katie! :D

I'll get pics as soon as I can figure out what's going on with the new pc and the old digcam software... they don't like each other. :roll:

Oh, and do certain roaches have softer exoskeletons than others? My dubias seem to be pretty tough, but the meat content is higher. The other thing is, my Cresteds will only eat the ones that are between inch and inch and a half... once they pass that size, the roaches just cohabit with the geckos. I don't mind this much, but it leaves me with quite a few males in the end and I don't have anything big enough to eat them... yet! ;)

Oh yeah, and how do I make the "slurry"? Can I do this without putting bugs in my blender or food processor? Ewwwwwwwww...

ReptileChick

12-29-2006, 10:22 PM

Good luck with your cam. lol!

Don't know much about roaches, just know they are good feeders. Mom won't let me have any...lol! I know dubias work great though! Just feed the smaller ones (no bigger than space between beardy's eyes) until he/she is older.

Don't know how you would without tossing crickets in the blender. lol! But hey! Bugs are great protein, ya know! Mmm mmm...lol! I would just use the baby food, and mix some supplements in. Should work great.

cml3.0

12-30-2006, 12:59 AM

You can try the laterials, I have a colony that my beardie LOVES!!! And they have a higher "meat" content than crickets. I will even pull off their legs and put the beardie on the ground and toss them at him, it's like toss the roach game, lol.
I even gave some to my friend with beardies and they would pick them out of the crickets they were mixed in with :)

Best of luck to you, are you planing on a vet trip with fecal?

AneesasMuse

12-30-2006, 01:20 AM

I am hoping for a vet visit next week... after these holidays, I guess... and I saved his little POO from today and will save a few more, as well.

I may try the Lateralis, too. Thanks. I have the Dubias and will be getting some Lobsters pretty soon. I have LOTS of crickets all the time cuz my Cresteds prefer them to roaches. I may even try some worms once he's showing some strength. He seems to be improving by the hour, though. I'm so relieved.

RangerGrrl

12-31-2006, 08:37 AM

Aneesas, I used to see a lot of "pet store beardie" questions while doing reptile education days with the herp club, and it sounds like you have the bases well covered. THe biggest things in pet stores are usually hatchling dehydration (pet store employees forget that small ones need more moisture), superinfections of gut parasites, and nutritional issues. You have the first and last covered and are getting the parasites checked in a week, so hopefully Hugo will continue to improve! (The poop is a great sign.... he may have been too cold and dry to pass it earlier.)

A lot of babies, esp. ones who got the "pet store diet" of crix, will not recognize greens as food right away, but just keep at it. I also used to mix a little fruit and chicken baby food together as a treat for an ailing dragon..... Sure beats roaches in the blender! Good luck with Hugo. Beardies are great animals.

AneesasMuse

12-31-2006, 01:14 PM

Thank you, RangerGrrl :D

Hugo has improved tremendously and I am so happy about it. I may be making some room in The ROOM, but that's okay... what's one more, right?
He's getting morning and evening baths, he's eating crickets on his own... I love to watch him chase one down =D> and he's interested in the greens, too ;) I think someone already introduced my baby to "beardie crack"... ahem, calcium. :roll: I chop up his greens and sprinkle some calcium on and he 'rummages' through it and nibbles a tiny bit (it is very hard to type with a rattie trying to help.... geeeeesh! Taffy, stop...)

I've been giving him a little chicken and squash type baby foods mixed and supp'd up to maintain his strength, so he has a taste for veggies. I also have some fresh ones here for him that I can grate up and so on. I bought him a prickly pear yesterday... just for him \\:D/

It's just about time to make Beardie breakfast and get the "tub" ready. He likes to snack on a little "squishy" while he bathes and then he's ready to chase down the crickets. He's not spoiled, not at all. :D

Reptile4life

12-31-2006, 03:33 PM

That is awsome!!!! I am very happy for you.. you are doing a awsome job congrats. ( i could just hug you right now becuase you bit the bullet for a little guy who had almost no chance)

AneesasMuse

01-09-2007, 12:19 AM

Just thought I'd give a little update on Hugo and his progress :)

He is still eating LOTS of 2 week crickets and now, he's starting to voluntarily eat his little salads that I make for him every day. It's so cute to see him dig in and sling tiny slivers of collards and "dressing" all over the place. :D

We're waiting for fecal flotation results, too.

789

01-09-2007, 11:08 AM

Be careful with lobster roaches, they can climb glass. And lateralis roaches run pretty fast. I'm not sure how fast the dubia are to compare the two though.

Colleen07

01-09-2007, 11:20 AM

If you breed the roaches, just put a generous amount of vasaline around the opening of the bin.

789

01-09-2007, 11:36 PM

Yeah, that's what I do with my hissers but they aren't as fast as lobsters. I just got some death head roaches I believe. About as big as the hissers and can't climb.

I also got a sack full of hissers.

3 colonies to get going now.

Edit
Not sure that it was a death head or fusca now. I was told it was death head. Now I got to find out the difference. Doesn't matter, still need a colony.