Snake

[Zcalvy]

i buying my first snake in a an hour or less but i want some opinions and help..
i wanted to get a baby snake that i know this local reptile store has plenty and i dont know much about the different kinds of snakes

wheat im asking for is a baby snake thats not going to get very big.. but i dont want one thats to small to eat mice... any suggestions before i leave ??

[waldo]

cornsnake. They can live in a 20 gallon long as adults and easily take adult mice when grown. Mine is awsome.

[Zcalvy]

i left before i could read your comment and i got a ball python...
hes prolly about 12 inches maby more but i havent checked yet..


i got him home and the sec i got him home i left him on my reclineing chair with the bag open and he snuck in the chair 2 min after i left him there when i was cleaning out a 10 gal tank i have for him... so i spent 1 hour cutting away at my favorite chair for a 69.99 ball python i got and i finally found him so hes safe and i'll get pics in a couple days whens hes calm down and ready...

i have a heat glow 75 wat inferred light that im planning on keeping on 24/h and a under tank heat with maby 1inch of bedding

till next thursday when i feed him and start handling him


am i doing this correctly?

any suggestions?

[Cicada Hollow]

i buying my first snake in a an hour or less but i want some opinions and help..

It would have been responsible and wise to RESEARCH prior to purchasing. Since you purchased on a whim, I'd say go online and research ball python caresheets...something you should have done prior to bringing him/her home.

[cornsnake]

It would have been responsible and wise to RESEARCH prior to purchasing. Since you purchased on a whim, I'd say go online and research ball python caresheets...something you should have done prior to bringing him/her home.

i agree 100%
also i dont know if you were told this or not, but ball pythons are notorious for going off feed for months, for being very picky eaters, and just eventually pissing people off because they wont eat at times. i would have gotten a cornsnake they normally do not have the same feeding problems, and are not wild caught, or farmed. i do not have anything against ball pythons however, for a beginner to snakes, the frustrations that can happen, are IMHO not worth it.

corey

[Zcalvy]

i have

[Zcalvy]

is it really necessary to leave him the tank by himself and not pick him up for the first week?

[Preston Cook]

I would say for the first 3 days, leave him alone.

[waldo]

I'd give him more substrate and double check your temps. A light and heat mat may cook him. Make sure he has the proper humidity, I always had a tub with damp moss for my balls.
I really like balls but both I had were problem eaters. As much as I like pythons, I will stick to corns for now on.

[Zcalvy]

i have about little less than 1 inch of substrate and a inferred heat light thats on 24h but the temp is 80 during the day and 85 at night

the problem is he stays inside the cave rock i have for him an hasnt gotton out since i got him

[IndyCrestie]

i have about little less than 1 inch of substrate and a inferred heat light thats on 24h but the temp is 80 during the day and 85 at night

the problem is he stays inside the cave rock i have for him an hasnt gotton out since i got him

He needs to have two hide spots. One on the warm side of the cage, and one on the cool side. Only offering one hide spot forces him to stay on that side of the tank whether it's too hot or warm. He needs to be permitted to thermoregulate (warm up and cool down his body via the heat light/mat) by choosing which side to be on.

Often times, when the snake is new and stressed out from a move, they will retreat to the only hide available and ignore whether they're too hot or too cold. You don't have to buy another hide either. You can find a small well made box and cut out a small opening in the side for him to enter/exit.

Honestly, if the place you bought him from has a guarantee, I would seriously consider exchanging him for a corn snake. I think you'd be much happier in the long run. BP's are not a great first time snake IMHO.

[MiNuRvA]

You're also going to want to be prepared to buy a bigger tank. 10 gallons is not a very good size- it gives little floor space for him to move around in and also makes it difficult to regulate temps. It's never a good idea to go and just buy any animal without researching and setting up it's home first, that way you minimize stress to the animal. Now you are stuck in a position where you have to experiement and read and learn everything you can to keep this animal healthy, but in the meantime the snake has to suffer through any mistakes you make. Take the advice of the earlier posters if you plan to keep this snake, set him up with a second, cooler hide, make sure he's got humidity, check the temps for a warm/cool side. Do not be surprised if this snake is very stressed out for the first week- and yes, it is necessary to not handle him at first, especially since he's likely already stressed to the max, you'll need to give him time to calm down and get settled in. Don't be surprised if he doesn't eat, either. As someone earlier said, balls are notorious for going off their food, especially when they are stressed out.

[Zcalvy]

well here he or she is i never asked... i've added a second hide out with more substrate under it so there would be less heat from the pad



http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b354/zcalvy/snake2.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b354/zcalvy/snake.jpg

[ReptileChick]

I may be wrong, but I've read that one hide you should put a water dish so they can soak in the dark. It helps with shedding. That tank is def. too small. I can't see how you would regulate temps. at all. Remember, the bigger the better. I would suggest, if you don't have the money, go out and get a big 20-30 gal. rubbermaid, cut a hole in the top and put screen on it, and set that up for him for now. That's what I would do until you could get the tank set up. Make sure to get one that has more floor space than hight though. Good luck!

[Zcalvy]

he/she is 20 inches long and i made the cage into two parts now one side with black rock cave with heat pad underneath and lamp above and the other side with just a coolwhip container, and water dish in middle
also a stick to rub on...

im getting a new tank at some point, now that i know i need a bigger one, but a 10 gallon works till the most 28 inches im just going to use this as of now till hes not stressed and more familar with me.

Yes i now i rushed into getting one wiout looking anything up but now i ahve read anything i could and now im prepared.. just something i'll keep in mind when i decide to get another reptile soon

thanks.

[SB1127]

You need to loose one of the heating devices. The temps could get into the lethal range. If you want to see your snake at night, stick with the red lamp. I would also suggest that you connect it to a rehostat, or a lamp with a built in dimmer( ZooMed makes one) so you can adjust the temps. The warm side should be between 85 and 90 degrees. You will eventually learn what temperature your snake responds best to. A thermometer on the cooler side is a good idea also. Get a bigger cage ASAP. And don't get something that it will outgrow in 6 months. The bigger the better. If you can't afford one,then don't own a snake.
I think you should hold off on buying anymore reptiles, so you don't rush out and buy something like a chameleon or burmese python on a whim. What was the rush? It's not like there are any shortages of snakes out there. Wouldn't it be better to, I don't know, READ some books and caresheets to find out what snake would suit you? When I got my first snake, I spent over a month reasearching and asking questions, then I found a snake that "called" to me. I then puchased the PROPER sized cage, and equipment, set up the cage and bought it home. I kept learning, experimented, and adjusted my setup till I found what works best.
You may think I'm being harsh, but too bad. I'm tired of reading the same nonsense on every almost every forum. The fact that your snake escaped a few minutes after you got him home tells me that you are irresponsible and shouldn't own a snake.

[MiNuRvA]

zcalvy, the problem is that you read the caresheets AFTER you bought the snake- whether you decided it would be a cool pet or just thought it looked neat, you definitely should have done all of the reading and had a tank set up before hand. That goes without saying for any animal you bring home, no matter how big or small. It's frustrating for experienced keepers because we've seen firsthand what happens when a snake falls into the hands of someone who doesn't know what he or she is doing, and the results can be disasterous. We're not saying that you are going to cause a disaster, just that you started out on the wrong foot, and I hope that you'll learn from this experience that next time, all research should be done before the purchase is made. That way, you avoid any costs you weren't aware of, any hassles of having to make extra trips to the pet store, and most importantly, you avoid as much stress and harm to the animal as possible. Not all care sheets are equal, and I'm sure that any experienced keeper on here will tell you that a 10 gallon is too small, even if a caresheet said it was OK. The reason is because since the snake needs a warm side and a cool side, it's tough to get what's called a gradient in a tank that small because there's nowhere for the heat to go. It may read ok this evening, but tomorrow after being on all day it may be higher because the heat can build up in the tank. You have to understand that people here are passionate about animals, and want to make sure that the snake isn't going to be harmed because of your inexperience. It's not about you knowing everything there is to know about balls, it's about you knowing the very basic care that's needed to keep them alive before bringing one home. Ball pythons are not easy snakes, so you've got your work cut out for you. I hope that you are able to find all of the information you need, and there are several people here that can be of a big help to you if you let them. Good luck...

[ReptileChick]

Well said Minurva. Just research first. It's better for the snake, and it's better for you. That's all we are saying.

[Zcalvy]

Yes i now i rushed into getting one wiout looking anything up but now i have read anything i could and now im prepared.. just something i'll keep in mind when i decide to get another reptile soon

thanks.


i said i agreed with you and that id read more next time

my last post was deleted because i was a little agnry and said a few things i shouldnt. Im not going to try and fight you guys over this so its alright i understand what your saying

the snake is fine.. I came on here so like i said you could tell me more than just the basic 20 caresheets i read... that way its good for me and the snake.

[peublan]

Glad that you are trying to get all the information now as soon as you got the snake home rather than wait untill you have had it two months and it is half dead. You have also made it clear that you will reasearch before you next pet.
I do agrgee with everyone else that a bigger tank should be a high priority, Some pet stores sometimes have cracked tanks that they sell much cheaper than ones that hold water. There are also tanks that are made just for reptiles that are a thinner glass than a fish tank, they also have a built in screen tops that close tighter than the tops that are sold to put on fish tanks.

One more thing the odds (based on the snakes price) are that your ball was a wild caught and getting it treated for parasites would be a good idea. Best of luck with you new pet.
Dale

[Misskiwi67]

I'm going to disagree with the majority here on getting a larger tank. Smaller is better for babies!! These are a species of snake that likes to hide, likes cramped spaces, and stresses out in large open environments. I wouldn't get a larger cage until he's double the size he is now...

However, with that said, temps are CRUCIAL!! I suggest that you purchase at the minimum an indoor/outdoor digital thermometer to monitor the temperature on both sides of your tank simultaneously. Those little round dials from the petstore are worthless pieces of junk... not to mention they measure the temperature way up on the wall of the tank. Does your snake sit there? The temperature will vary greatly from one part of the tank to the other, and you need to measure your temps where the snake is. I would put the probe from the digital thermometer INSIDE your ball pythons favorite hide.

If you can get a hold of a temp gun, that would be even better.

Also, when the care sheets say don't hold your snake for a week... in my opinion they're being too nice. DO NOT hold your snake for a week, then try to feed it. If it doesn't eat, DO NOT get your snake out untill after it eats!!! If it eats, give it three days, and you can hold it ONCE... feed it again next week... if it eats, then you're in the clear.

If you snake hasn't eaten after two consecutive feedings... you need to start getting help with what is wrong with your cage. Your ball python looks fat and healthy, so if it doesn't eat, its probably not the snake.... its you.

[Zcalvy]

thanks for the info.. was about to buy different temerature and humidty gauges so i'll try and get what you have suggested

[Zcalvy]

Also in the handling, i wasnt going to handle him till i fed him this thursday, to put him into a smaller setup so he doesn't get confused with me putting my hand in and feeding

[Misskiwi67]

I don't think that is something to worry about at this point. Feeding and handling should be so different that your snake doesn't have to worry about weather or not you are there for dinner or not. You can feed him elsewhere later if you choose, but I prefer to feed in the cage because feeding is more likely to occur when the snake is comfortable.

I use a snake stick to let my snakes know when they aren't getting fed. With a small snake like a ball python, a touch of the hand should be enough. Touch them before you do anything else in the cage, and they'll know food is not coming this time. Touch them every time you change their water, and every time you pick them up. Feeding and handling should be conditioned responses to prevent accidents.

How are you going to get your snake back out of their tub after eating? Sure, people do it all the time, but in my experience, snakes are commonly still ready for more even after eating, AND you will smell like food.... bad combination. I also don't like handling snakes after eating because they've just eaten a big meal. Snakes should be able to go straight to their favorite hide after a meal and digest for 48 hours undisturbed.

By feeding the snake in the cage, you not only encourage good handling practices by making yourself become more aware of what your snake is doing, and the snake is more likely to eat because they are comfortable. Its just a better situation all around, in my opinion. I'm sure others will disagree with me, but its worked well for me.

[cornsnake]

my only problem with feeding in cage, is that you increase the chance of substrate impaction, and other problems related. sure in the wild the snakes would eat some substrate. however i think that feeding out of cage just decreases the chance of some sort of accident.
that is just my thoughts, also i think that a 20 gallon will not stress out a 20 inch snake. a ten gallon makes controlling a temperature gradient very difficult. with a 20 gallon you have more control over temperatures and still gives the snake "security". if anything a bad temp gradient will stress the snake out more than more space.
corey

[Misskiwi67]

my only problem with feeding in cage, is that you increase the chance of substrate impaction, and other problems related. sure in the wild the snakes would eat some substrate. however i think that feeding out of cage just decreases the chance of some sort of accident.
that is just my thoughts, also i think that a 20 gallon will not stress out a 20 inch snake. a ten gallon makes controlling a temperature gradient very difficult. with a 20 gallon you have more control over temperatures and still gives the snake "security". if anything a bad temp gradient will stress the snake out more than more space.
corey

A 20 gallon might not stress out a cornsnake... but he didn't buy a cornsnake, he bought a ball python...

I was told a 20 gallon (equivalent tupperware) was too large for my baby blood python, and they're a helluva lot larger than a ball python, but they have nearly identical habits.

You're probably right about impaction, but that depends on the substrate being used...

Temp gradients are easily controlled with a thermostat... In my experience, unless you're keeping the snake in an opaque container, its harder to provide security than accurate temperature.

[cml3.0]

I like feeding out of the tank just so they don't associate the feeding with the tank or you hand. What you could do is put him in a small enough container (with holes) and feed him in that.

[Misskiwi67]

So they can associate the tank and your hand with feeding, but they don't associate getting held and their feeding tub with feeding???

[MiNuRvA]

I used to feed in a tub and switched to feeding in the tank, just because I'm lazy. I definitely noticed a difference in my snake's behavior, she always thinks she's getting fed if I'm fiddling around in the tank. When I fed her in the tub she was never like that, but was wound up like a spring the minute I put her in the tub. I had to be ready to toss that mouse and snap the lid shut! Afterward I'd leave her alone for an hour or so and then return her to the tank, so no, I don't think she learned to associate handling with feeding. I handled her enough back then outside of feeding that it never became a pattern and never became a problem.

[cml3.0]

Yeap they associate the tub with feeding and ya watch out they get excited!!!

[Misskiwi67]

To each their own I suppose. I'll stick with the snake stick before handling... thats what we used at the zoo, and its served me well.

[MiNuRvA]

To each their own I suppose.


It's really all about classical conditioning, and establishing a pattern. If you do things the same way every time, the snake (or any other food motivated animal) will pick up on the pattern and associate certain behaviors from you with feeding. If the snake is handled enough regularly outside of feeding it will likely never associate hanling and feeding, because if you feed once every other week, but you handle every day, then the odds of being handled and fed in the same day are 1:14. I don't think they can count days, so you should be safe as long as you keep up a regular routine, either way you do it. Whatever you're most comfortable with is the best, because ultimately being comfortable and confident gives you the upper hand. I personally don't handle my snake anymore, I've gotten used to the idea that she's more for looking and then playing with.