Fear Factor = Animal cruelty

[meg90]

Did ANYONE else see the episode of the new Fear Factor, in which the contestants were told to move live snakes WITH THEIR MOUTHS? They had an array of boas (redtails etc) and ball pythons from baby on up to literally animals as big around as my thigh-- and they had one person lay in a tank of them, and the other was supposed to pick up the snakes with nothing but their mouths and move them to another box. DUMBEST shit I've seen in months, and it borders on animal cruelty. I'm really upset.

They snakes were literally dropped and DUMPED into the tank, the baby ball pythons bounced around inside of it, totally balled up and upset before coming to a stop.

Honestly, the first contestant was going for all the young, small snakes and the host is literally YELLING "GO FOR THE BIG ONE! THE BIG ONE!" and if she tried to pick up large snakes, they'd jerk and hiss and strike, obviously because it feels like they are being preyed on.

Its so SICK and twisted I can't not even believe this. Its TURNING my stomach.

This is animal cruelty at its finest. Would they let people pick up newborn kittens with their teeth? Baby chicks? Baby bunnies?

I'm at the point where I want to find a number I can call and start screaming.


Here are some links to the preview. I'm so disgusted.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/hl-60016975/fear_factor_snake_bite_season_7/
http://www.hulu.com/watch/311977/fear-factor-snake-bite


HOW can they treat animals this way? They are literally forcing the snakes to defend themselves and these whiny ass white girls are all like "oh my god, they are so TERRIBLE!" I could kick someones ass right now. F*CK.

[mfgeckos]

Wow that's crazy, I can't believe they would out that on tv, I'm sure they catching a lot of heat from it. People will do anything for entertainment, its messed up the type of thing that our society is desensitized too.

[rhatfield]

WOW, and you know they are not are not worried about the snakes being hurt, really their tiny ribs are fragile! I would figure the snake is being bitten hard to pick it up that way.

[Gentlegiant1989]

As I was sitting here reading all the lil gears and creative juices in my head went into overdrive and I started picturing like a huge genetically altered snake picking up the people and drooping them into a tank lol sounds crazy but I bet those people would have a really quick Change of heart lol

[Elise.m]

I saw this episode last night. It was really bad, I had to cover my eyes and so did my Fiance. We kept talking about the snakes, weren't really even paying attention to the people doing the "challenge". Come on, like laying with a bunch of Ball Pythons is really challenging?!?! IMO the challenging part would be picking them up with your mouth, ugh that's disgusting.

I was concerned about the boas being around pythons (unless they've been tested to find out if they're clear for IBD), and how hard the people were biting the snakes. I wouldn't ever dare dream of moving a snake with my mouth, it's just wrong.

We were wondering if they had to sign any contracts stating they wouldn't sue if they got salmonella. Also what time of screening the animals went through... Poor things. I'm sure a few of them died or lost a few feedings over stress.

[newlyson]

i would think you have to bte down prety hard to pick them up? many of them probrably suffered miner and some even major injuries

[Reptile Bob]

Hello,

We are animal wranglers for Fear Factor and want to make a few comments. In regards to concerns for the animals, our #1 priority on set is to ensure animal safety and well-being. What's shown on TV and what happens in real life is not the same, as selective editing and added effects are used to make the sequence appear far more dramatic then it really is.

All contestants wear mouth guards for the animal's protection and are given explicit instructions on how to move the snakes. In this method used, it is very similar to using snake tongs. The animals had a thick layer of bedding to be placed on and got far less jostling then they would if one was to ship a snake. If a snake would have been in danger of being injured, we stop filming immediately and either rectify the situation or cancel the stunt.

Again, our main purpose being on set is to insure the safety of animals and the contestants. No snakes were harmed or injured during the filming and all ate regularly at their next scheduled feeding.

If you have any questions please feel free to post, but I'll only respond to constructive posts, questions or comments. Certainly some will continue to feel a certain way on this, but again; no animals were harmed or injured.

[WillC]

Reptile Bob,

Can you post a link to your business or something? You didn't sign your post or give a name other than "reptile bob".

Any yahoo could come onto Pangea and make an account. So its hard to know if you are really with the show or a random person.

[fluffpuffgerbil]

I'm not even going to watch the episode, but man I've been on a couple different forums/threads and Fear Factor is getting flamed for what they've done.

But I'm done with that show. I was done when they ate live hornworms and stinkbugs in coffee(Which I just couldn't stomach when the people started throwing up.)

[sushigex]

Joe Rogan tweeted live during the show that they were wearing near invisible mouth pieces for the snakes protection. I mean think about it if they were really biting into the snakes, don't you think the snakes would be striking? I saw the episode and love snakes, I didn't have any problem with it.

[meg90]

The snakes were striking, especially the larger boas and balls. And with Jo Rogan SCREAMING the entire time "go for the big one! THE BIG ONE!" several contestants tried.

Honestly, safety measures taken (which I don't buy) that kind of behavior should not be shown on television. Snakes are already getting a bad rap, and using them in a stunt similar to what you would do with a bug, just drop kicks them another level lower in the public's eye.

Who cares what happens to a snake? It OBVIOUSLY can't feel pain, because people bite them for sport.

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

This is Fear Factor. Why even bother watching it when you KNOW this kind of shit happens on it all the time and it infuriates you?

Also, if animal safety was a huge priority, I seriously doubt that they'd be being thrown around like they are. Or, uh, bitten, mouth guards or not. You're going to have pounds and pounds and pounds of pressure being placed onto an animal, and when you're talking about a 50 gram or so little ball python, you could easily crush its head or break ribs.

[CrowTRobot]

Snakes are already getting a bad rap, and using them in a stunt similar to what you would do with a bug, just drop kicks them another level lower in the public's eye.

Exactly. This is the kind of thing that is ruining our hobby.

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

Honestly, safety measures taken (which I don't buy) that kind of behavior should not be shown on television. Snakes are already getting a bad rap, and using them in a stunt similar to what you would do with a bug, just drop kicks them another level lower in the public's eye.

Who cares what happens to a snake? It OBVIOUSLY can't feel pain, because people bite them for sport.

That's why they're used. There's some sort of primal urge to fear/hate snakes without reason, so for a thrill, people looking to make money prey on that.

[fluffpuffgerbil]

Exactly. This is the kind of thing that is ruining our hobby.

X 2
Agreed

[Reptile Bob]

Reptile Bob,

Can you post a link to your business or something? You didn't sign your post or give a name other than "reptile bob".

Any yahoo could come onto Pangea and make an account. So its hard to know if you are really with the show or a random person.

We have done movie work with reptiles and exotic animals for over 15 years on hundreds of sets. Fortunately, we have not had any incidents where an animal was harmed or injured and work hard to continue this.

We don't have a website, as all our advertizing is done in the hollywood 411 and through word of mouth.

[meg90]

How about a phone number then? Or an address? I'll actually be in that neck of the woods next week. ANYONE can sign up and say they are someone else.

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

Google searching "Action Reptiles" brings up all sorts of random results, mainly of a hobby breeder who specializes in bearded dragons and ball pythons. Hmm.

[meg90]

http://www.yellowbook.com/profile/action-reptiles_1849977474.html?classid=6470

I found this. Its so funny that the supposed reptile suppliers for bullshit Fear Factor SOMEHOW found this thread. I mean really---

But I was wondering who these people were. I bet the BOI would benefit from a thread that says they are supplying their snakes for abusive tv stunts, and then probably selling those exact same snakes in the shop.

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

If my memory is correct, someone saying they're a representative for some show or company has popped on this site before and done this.

But... isn't the Off Topic part of this forum locked from being viewed by guests?

[Reptile Bob]

The snakes were striking, especially the larger boas and balls. And with Jo Rogan SCREAMING the entire time "go for the big one! THE BIG ONE!" several contestants tried.

Honestly, safety measures taken (which I don't buy) that kind of behavior should not be shown on television. Snakes are already getting a bad rap, and using them in a stunt similar to what you would do with a bug, just drop kicks them another level lower in the public's eye.

Who cares what happens to a snake? It OBVIOUSLY can't feel pain, because people bite them for sport.

All the hissing and striking was added in post production. We are there to make sure that animals are treated fairly and humanly. If the producers didn't care for the safety of the animals, they wouldn't have hired professional wranglers or would have submitted to the precautions we enforced on them. It would have been much cheaper and easier for them to just buy 100 lots of snakes, done the stunt without supervision, and dumped them.

These are our personal snakes that were used and it is in our best interest, ethically, legally and financially to make sure they are well cared for and un-harmed.

[meg90]

So its PROFESSIONAL to have a mixed lot of boas and pythons that can transmit diseases to each other, in a varying array of sizes, all crammed into a garbage can, and then DUMPED into a another glass tank?

Even Petco knows better than to house week old ball pythons with adult Redtail boas.

PROFESSIONALS refuse to work with Fear Factor. There have been several vendors bow out of stunts because they don't agree with the practices.

How about some photos then? You guys can figure out photobucket right? Every reptile business owns a camera, or has someone working for them that does.

I still really don't believe a word of this.

It was a responsible stunt, but was edited post production to make it look like America HATES snakes, uses them for fear mongering and that its OK to abuse them.

I'll stop bitching the moment someone wants to repeat this stunt with baby bunnies.

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

Even Petco knows better than to house week old ball pythons with adult Redtail boas.

PROFESSIONALS refuse to work with Fear Factor. There have been several vendors bow out of stunts because they don't agree with the practices.

How about some photos then? You guys can figure out photobucket right? Every reptile business owns a camera, or has someone working for them that does.

it's OK to abuse them.

I'll stop bitching the moment someone wants to repeat this stunt with baby bunnies.

Petco carries boas? I haven't seen one in any of my Petcos in a good five years now. Then again, the pet stores in my area are pretty cool.

Not only are Photobucket, imageshack, and other image hosting sites easy and free to use, it's not hard or expensive to have a little one page website up.

Of course it is. Where have you been? They're nasty snakes! They're slimy and gross and mean and evil! My mama said so! I got nothing else to be learned about dem things! They're evil and nasty and that's that!

ROFL. I'd love to see that. "We've used baby ball pythons for years, now we're using baby bunnies and baby mice!"

[fluffpuffgerbil]

To Reptile Bob's post(but not necessarily towards him)

It says that the hissing and striking was added in post production, but they were obviously provoked to strike and hiss somewhat, which means they were stressed out and upset. I don't think anyone should purposely stress out their snake to make them feel the need to defend themselves, whether for entertainment or not, it's just sorta mean IMO. :/

[fluffpuffgerbil]

Petco carries boas? I haven't seen one in any of my Petcos in a good five years now. Then again, the pet stores in my area are pretty cool.



Yep, the one around me keeps RTB's now and then, not too often, but they'll have 1 or 2 in a cage on the opposite side they keep their BPs.

My petco's(and petsmarts) are pretty cool too though. ^^

[Larn'sLizards]

I saw a commercial where they consumed live scorpions...I wonder if that hobby is upset. I cannot watch that show--the way they portray animals bothers me so much. I sympathize with your passion Meg, these "stunts" are infuriating.

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

No RTBs must be a regional thing then.

Also, this is just the practical bone in me coming out, but wouldn't scorpions be an excellent source of protein and calcium?

[fluffpuffgerbil]

Don't some people just eat bugs anyway? I mean, not always live ones, but bugs in general? (I'm sure scorpions are on the list of bug delicacies.) (Maybe I'd feel different about that if I kept scorpions, but I don't, so I don't really care if they get eaten or not. XD) I was just under the impression that you could(buy them) to eat anyway if you really wanted.
I could be wrong though.

[Tauni]

Reptile Bob - please understand that we would like to see more evidence that you are indeed who you say you are. Anyone can come on here and say stuff - there was one time, when I was the president of the Reptile Club of Utah someone-> no, jk, you see? I just said that and it's totally not true, I'm not the president of anything, but i just said I was. Why should we believe you?

Show us something to make us believe you because so far you have ignored our requests for a site, contact number, photos of you and your snakes.

Besides all of that you simply can not agree that what happened in this production was humane. Biting anything, be it dogs or snakes, is harmful even with mouth guards. Snakes have thin bones and the pressure used to pick them up surely snapped a few. Putting large snakes in with smaller was a stupid thing to do - not only might they have injured each other but diseases are a real risk here.

Then making them hiss and strike, even in after-production, isn't exactly something I would call humane. They're aren't dogs or bears, who we can teach to growl on command for a treat. The only way you could have gotten them to do that was to piss them off, agitate them. It isn't humane to throw stones at a tiger, it isn't humane to poke a snake with a stick, no matter how much money you got to do it.

[fluffpuffgerbil]

Reptile Bob - please understand that we would like to see more evidence that you are indeed who you say you are. Anyone can come on here and say stuff - there was one time, when I was the president of the Reptile Club of Utah someone-> no, jk, you see? I just said that and it's totally not true, I'm not the president of anything, but i just said I was. Why should we believe you?

Show us something to make us believe you because so far you have ignored our requests for a site, contact number, photos of you and your snakes.

Besides all of that you simply can not agree that what happened in this production was humane. Biting anything, be it dogs or snakes, is harmful even with mouth guards. Snakes have thin bones and the pressure used to pick them up surely snapped a few. Putting large snakes in with smaller was a stupid thing to do - not only might they have injured each other but diseases are a real risk here.

Then making them hiss and strike, even in after-production, isn't exactly something I would call humane. They're aren't dogs or bears, who we can teach to growl on command for a treat. The only way you could have gotten them to do that was to piss them off, agitate them. It isn't humane to throw stones at a tiger, it isn't humane to poke a snake with a stick, no matter how much money you got to do it.

Since I can't thank this(ran out of thanks I guess? XD) I'll just say it here, thank you, I agree 100%

[Reptile Bob]

So its PROFESSIONAL to have a mixed lot of boas and pythons that can transmit diseases to each other, in a varying array of sizes, all crammed into a garbage can, and then DUMPED into a another glass tank?

Even Petco knows better than to house week old ball pythons with adult Redtail boas.



The snakes are all captive bred and parasite free and were together for a very limited amount of time. Obviously we don't house these snakes together regulatory. We have all these snakes still and none were harmed and all ate normally afterward.

Despite how the episode may have been perceived by some, it was done responsibly with no injuries to the snakes.

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

Don't some people just eat bugs anyway? I mean, not always live ones, but bugs in general? (I'm sure scorpions are on the list of bug delicacies.) (Maybe I'd feel different about that if I kept scorpions, but I don't, so I don't really care if they get eaten or not. XD) I was just under the impression that you could(buy them) to eat anyway if you really wanted.
I could be wrong though.

You mean besides where they HAVE to? Yes. It was actually featured on the food episode of Taboo. I'm sure you could find a place to buy insects and other 'bugs' for consumption. Fluker's has chocolate covered crickets for sale on their site.

[Reptile Bob]

Don't some people just eat bugs anyway? I mean, not always live ones, but bugs in general? (I'm sure scorpions are on the list of bug delicacies.) (Maybe I'd feel different about that if I kept scorpions, but I don't, so I don't really care if they get eaten or not. XD) I was just under the impression that you could(buy them) to eat anyway if you really wanted.
I could be wrong though.

The scorpions used for eating were "food grade" that would otherwise end up in lollypops or tequila bottles. Everything eaten on the show must be sold as a food product commercially.

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

The snakes are all captive bred and parasite free and were together for a very limited amount of time.

A limited time is much more than is needed for one to eat or bite the other, allow for an unplanned breeding or fighting, and to pass IBD, which isn't even a parasite. Respiratory infections aren't parasites, either.

[fluffpuffgerbil]

You mean besides where they HAVE to? Yes. It was actually featured on the food episode of Taboo. I'm sure you could find a place to buy insects and other 'bugs' for consumption. Fluker's has chocolate covered crickets for sale on their site.

Yeah, alright, that's what I thought. ^^ (I've no interest in eating bugs though XD)

[Reptile Bob]

To Reptile Bob's post(but not necessarily towards him)

It says that the hissing and striking was added in post production, but they were obviously provoked to strike and hiss somewhat, which means they were stressed out and upset. I don't think anyone should purposely stress out their snake to make them feel the need to defend themselves, whether for entertainment or not, it's just sorta mean IMO. :/

We have a set of snakes that most would consider "aggressive" "mean" or "hissy" used just for scenes involving striking. These are handled with extreme care to make sure they are not stressed any more then they would be from routine maintenance.

[Spyral]

I saw a commercial where they consumed live scorpions...I wonder if that hobby is upset. I cannot watch that show--the way they portray animals bothers me so much. I sympathize with your passion Meg, these "stunts" are infuriating.

I've been in that hobby, I love scorpions, and yes things like this make me upset. I don't like things being killed for sport, regardless of it being a "lower" life form. I don't watch Fear Factor because of the way it reinforces that snakes, inverts, etc are gross and somehow "scary".


Don't some people just eat bugs anyway? I mean, not always live ones, but bugs in general? (I'm sure scorpions are on the list of bug delicacies.) (Maybe I'd feel different about that if I kept scorpions, but I don't, so I don't really care if they get eaten or not. XD) I was just under the impression that you could(buy them) to eat anyway if you really wanted.

You can buy and eat most animals as long as you kill them "humanely". There are laws against selling the meat in some areas of the US.

[TheOrise]

Who handed out pitchforks today? I want one.......

[Tauni]

Reptile Bob: I still refuse to believe you are who you say you are until some concrete evidence crops up. Until then, you might as well be John Doe. Sure, a John Doe with a computer and some fingers to type with, but still an unknown.

[fluffpuffgerbil]

I've been in that hobby, I love scorpions, and yes things like this make me upset. I don't like things being killed for sport, regardless of it being a "lower" life form. I don't watch Fear Factor because of the way it reinforces that snakes, inverts, etc are gross and somehow "scary".



You can buy and eat most animals as long as you kill them "humanely". There are laws against selling the meat in some areas of the US.

I don't like it when things are killed for sport either. I honestly wasn't too thrilled about them eating hornworms in one of the last episodes(I think last time I mentioned this I accidentally said Superworms...) because I actually think hornworms are cute. XD I think Fear Factor is a pretty terrible show though.

And I can definitely see how loving a scorpion isn't any different than loving another pet. (though I don't think you can cuddle with scorpions. XD)
I love all animals and respect everyone else who likes certain animals I personally wouldn't keep(scorpions, spiders, ect,)

I hate the stereotype on those types of animals.
----

And about the aggressive snakes, if I had snakes I knew were aggressive/hissy/ect, I probably wouldn't be putting them in even more stressful enviournments like that to purposely make them mad.
It can't be helped if they're like that during routine cleaning/maintenance whatever, but I wouldn't purposely put them in positions like that.

[meg90]

I agree, I don't buy a word of this with out some actual PROOF.

How did you even FIND this thread Reptile Bob? Or is that another question you'd like to sidestep?

[s&tgeckos]

Hey guys I don't normally do this but today I will. I can tell you for sure the ReptileBob is who he says he is. I have met Action Reptiles in person numerous times and have bought three of their snakes, two Cali kings that are the nicest snakes in the world and a male ball python. I've had my Male king (my first snake ever) for two years now and the other two for about 10 months now and have never had any health issues with any of them ever and they are all nice and healthy and big piggies. :-) I've also bought emperor scorpions, tarantulas, geckos and frogs from them. I've been very happy with all my animals. Action Reptiles are good people and they do treat their animals with the upmost respect and care, I've even seen them refuse a sale to people they don't think will care for the reptile(s) properly. So as human beings and reptile owners, sellers, etc they are great people. I know my word may not mean much but all that I have said is true. I hope this helps everyone a little. And I'm sorry if this makes anyone dislike me or such but I felt the need to step up as Action Reptiles has sold me some wonderful animals and have been nothing but kind, respectful and helpful towards me.

[meg90]

Sam, now I have to ask you---would you let someone pick up your snakes with their mouth?

ANYONE who is supporting Action reptiles--would you let someone use their teeth to pick up your snake? Your gecko? Your monitor lizard? Your Tortoise?

I don't understand how anyone can think this behavior is acceptable. Watch the clips. The whole episode was much, much worse.

[rmarkham]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-SPmCxlfU&feature=related Hope none of these snakes suffocated at the bottom. Screw the ass hats what wanted to be on this show.

I couldn't get a link to the new episode..

But, saying that treating any animal like that is humane.. I don't know about that. Maybe on opposite day. Would you want to be the little snake at the bottom of the pile, terrified and wanting to get somewhere warm and quiet?

And, what about this.. Were the rats alive?
:"2.) Rat Bobbing - Episode 416 (Season 4): During Couples' Fear Factor, the girls had to lie down in a plexi-glass tank, and then were covered in 400 rats. The guys then had to retrieve ten chicken's feet from the tank, using only their mouths! One couple bowed out of the stunt cuz it was just too gross! The couple who won this stunt won an all-expenses paid trip to Las Vegas - think it was worth it?" -Taken from http://www.kidzworld.com/article/4924-top-ten-grossest-fear-factor-stunts

Needless to say, sometimes society never fails to disappoint and disgust.

[s&tgeckos]

I understand where you're coming from Meg :-) And I know how deeply you care for your animals, just as I care deeply for mine. I wasn't there so I don't truly know what to think. All I know is that Action are great people and I've never seen any complaints against them until now. And I know they provide the best care for all their animals and would not put any in harms way. I wouldn't use my mouth to pick up snakes, though I am curious now to what they might taste like....:-P No i'm not going to go lick them just wonder now. Lol.

[meg90]

It was really hard to watch little palm sized ball pythons being preyed on like that. I mean really, they are so shy and sweet already, and to have a person descending on them, mouth open, JUST the way a predator in the wild would---that is the definition of inhumane.

If I raise a foam bat and go to hit a dog with it, that dog is going to cower, because its a WEAPON, made of foam or not.

Same thing goes with the snakes, if you are acting like a predator, then to that snake, it will behave, react and feel as if it will become a meal.

[s&tgeckos]

Yeah. I get that I do. I'm not trying to make enemies here or anything. Just had to stick up for the people who helped increase my interest in this industry and who have sold me many great and healthy animals. And who have also answered every one how my questions especially when I was first getting started into the world of reptiles. they've been nothing but helpful and I do believe that they care immensely for their animals. I just speak from my experiences with them that's all.

[Dobeyxxl]

I don't think ReptileBob did himself and his company any favors coming on this forum trying to defend the shows reputation, lol, if ReptileBob is even legit. You can not reason with people who project their human emotions onto animals and then claim the animals have human emotions.

Watch or don't watch the episode, personally I got bored of fear factor long ago but here is the link http://www.hulu.com/watch/314364/fear-factor-snake-bite.

The hissing in the video was clearly enhanced if not totally edited in, in my opinion.

What exactly was meant by " whiny ass white girls ", why the need to include race? No comments about the Asian couple ? Is their something stereotypical that is being implied?

[Gentlegiant1989]

I've been to a live casting of fear factor and it is the biggest compacted piece of BS I've ever seen! They don't treat there animals or even there employees with respect. There just another bunch of people out to make themselves money at any cost necessary!

[Reptile Bob]

I'm not sure why some people doubt that we are the wranglers for this show. I certainly wouldn't post here if I wasn't... We've done reptile TV and movie work for over a decade with some shows including: X-Files, Tonight Show, numerous Discovery / Animal Planet / Nat Geo shows, numerous reality shows, commercials and low budget films.

The response we’ve seen over this episode is a double edged sword to be sure. On one hand, I’m glad so many people are deeply concerned about animal well-fare. On the other, its quite distressing to be targeted as neglecting animals. We care very deeply for all animals, including reptiles and our main concern on set was their safety.

I fully respect peoples concerns over the episode and want to rest assure them that no animals were harmed, physically or otherwise. I personally inspected each snake before and after the filming to insure they were unharmed. Reality TV truly is often as far separated from reality as you’re going to get. What was presented on TV is different from what happened on set. The stunt was rehearsed many times, and the contestants did have mouth guards on to protect the animals from teeth, as well as we went over extensively the amount of pressure to be used. The result was the snakes being moved in a manor not significantly different then snake tongs. The receptacle they were placing the animals had a 3 inch foam pad covered by 3 inches of pine bedding to insure a safe landing. All of these snakes were captive bred and disease/ paracite free. In reality, less then half of the advertized “500 snakes” were used, and they were only together for very short periods of time. None of the snakes later showed any signs of distress or illness.

While stress is a very subjective measure, 95% of them ate four days after the episode at their scheduled feeding (as to be normally expected) and the rest ate soon after. We still have most of the snakes still with us, minus those we’ve since sold. While American Humane wasn’t present on this set, we’ve worked with them extensively in other productions and adhere to their standards of animal care.

Obviously many have issue with the episode, regardless of the well-being of the snakes. I can’t really argue either way on the taste of the episode however there was no intent of disrespect for the reptile community. Fear factor uses many “fears” in its episodes in addition to reptiles including dogs, piercings / tattoos, bungee jumping, sky diving, jet skiing, etc.

I’d also like to state that, like most of us in the reptile community, we are involved with reptiles because we care very much for and respect them. Certainly if we were here to make a fast buck, there are far easier more profitable industries to do so. At every set, our top concern is for the animals. We’ve halted or canceled many stunts in the past that we didn’t feel were safe, much to the producer’s anger.

We thank you for your concerns and we’ll try to answer any follow questions or comments.

[meg90]

Its nice to read such a well written response.

I'm pleased to see that you have the best intentions when it comes to your stock, but I'm still really disappointed that you allowed your animals to be used in that way, and to be showcased in such a terrible lighting.

With the reptile community in as much turmoil as it is, the use of live constrictors on television to picture and further promote FEAR, and that they are DANGEROUS unfeeling animals causes so much more damage than the passing news story.

How many american's actually watch the news? Probably not many. How many do you think watch reality television?

Some of the comments on Fear Factor's facebook page were disturbing. People rooting for the animals to be mistreated, one indivudial said he'd kill himself if he was dumb enough to own snakes as pets.

It casts a terrible light on the entire community and makes us all look BAD.

I wish you, and anyone else they had approached would have boycotted them, and forced them to change the stunt entirely.

Its one thing to fish something out of a cage of live snakes, its entirely another to treat the animals like objects, with the goal being to toss as many of them as possible around like apples for sport.

[fluffpuffgerbil]

Its nice to read such a well written response.

I'm pleased to see that you have the best intentions when it comes to your stock, but I'm still really disappointed that you allowed your animals to be used in that way, and to be showcased in such a terrible lighting.

With the reptile community in as much turmoil as it is, the use of live constrictors on television to picture and further promote FEAR, and that they are DANGEROUS unfeeling animals causes so much more damage than the passing news story.

How many american's actually watch the news? Probably not many. How many do you think watch reality television?

Some of the comments on Fear Factor's facebook page were disturbing. People rooting for the animals to be mistreated, one indivudial said he'd kill himself if he was dumb enough to own snakes as pets.

It casts a terrible light on the entire community and makes us all look BAD.

I wish you, and anyone else they had approached would have boycotted them, and forced them to change the stunt entirely.

Its one thing to fish something out of a cage of live snakes, its entirely another to treat the animals like objects, with the goal being to toss as many of them as possible around like apples for sport.

I agree with this. Because I myself(I know a lot of people do here too) have a sweet little 6 month old Ball Python girl and she's the most sweetest thing ever. Just darling. But thanks to that bloody show and all the rest of the media(except for a couple select shows on like, Nat Geo Wild, or something) put the boids in bad light, and I don't think any snake keeper should try to promote that. :/ Allowing their snakes to be treated like objects whether or not they were hurt physically or otherwise.

It's still wrong to the snakes. :/ I wouldn't care if godzilla was wearing a mouthguard or not, I still wouldn't want him picking me up in his mouth and tossing me in a bin no matter how cushioned it was. I'd be terrified!

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

I'm not sure why some people doubt that we are the wranglers for this show. I certainly wouldn't post here if I wasn't...

Obviously many have issue with the episode, regardless of the well-being of the snakes. I can’t really argue either way on the taste of the episode however there was no intent of disrespect for the reptile community. Fear factor uses many “fears” in its episodes in addition to reptiles including dogs, piercings / tattoos, bungee jumping, sky diving, jet skiing, etc.

Because anyone with internet, a device to type with, and an email address can register online somewhere and say they're this person or that person.

So even though you don't agree with what they were doing, you did it anyway...


How many american's actually watch the news? Probably not many. How many do you think watch reality television?

Have you seen the news lately? It's not too much better, not the national news at least.

[Daedric1]

HOW can they treat animals this way? They are literally forcing the snakes to defend themselves and these whiny ass white girls are all like "oh my god, they are so TERRIBLE!" I could kick someones ass right now. F*CK.

Fear factor = quality programming. I'm not surprised.

God forbid the snakes ever have to go into a tank full of whiny ass white girls.

HOW can they treat whiny ass white girls this way? They are literally forcing the whiny ass white girls to defend themselves and these snakes are all like "oh my god, they are so TERRIBLE! HISSSSSSSSS!" I could kick someones ass right now. F*CK.

[Tauni]

Look at this article... (http://reptileapartment.com/2012/01/03/inhumane-factor/)

Reptile Island? That isn't the information that is given here? Either this article is wrong or, as we guessed, this guy isn't who he says he is?

Edit - looks like reptile bob posted in the comments there too, go have a looksee

[fluffpuffgerbil]

Yeah, Reptile Island? Because Reptile Bob said in here he was from Action Reptiles and he definitely didn't try to correct it here or make note of that in the article.

And that was obviously Reptile Bob in the comments on the article because he posted the same message there as he did here. :/


I still don't think any lover of herps should have agreed to that bloody stunt on fear factor. :/ [-X

[Reptile Bob]

Reptile Island is the name of our stores.


Yeah, Reptile Island? Because Reptile Bob said in here he was from Action Reptiles and he definitely didn't try to correct it here or make note of that in the article.

And that was obviously Reptile Bob in the comments on the article because he posted the same message there as he did here. :/


I still don't think any lover of herps should have agreed to that bloody stunt on fear factor. :/ [-X

[fluffpuffgerbil]

***Still not moved on my opinions about any of this***

[TheOrise]

Reptile Island :/

I dropped off two eggs here earlier in the season and it was clear NO ONE ever checked on them.... Both molded. When I asked the owner what happened he told me it was "too late in the season". Since, we've hatched out 6 beautiful healthy crested geckos~ IMHO those should have hatched given proper egg temps/humidity.

[Jaybee]

Reptile Island :/

I dropped off two eggs here earlier in the season and it was clear NO ONE ever checked on them.... Both molded. When I asked the owner what happened he told me it was "too late in the season". Since, we've hatched out 6 beautiful healthy crested geckos~ IMHO those should have hatched given proper egg temps/humidity.
I've been reading this thread but I am not 100% sure what this one has to do with the issue at hand. Are you saying you dropped eggs off at the Reptile Island store and they molded? Why did you drop eggs off at their store? I don't really think it's proof against them in any case because crested eggs can go bad for reasons other than humidity and temperature...

[TheOrise]

I've been reading this thread but I am not 100% sure what this one has to do with the issue at hand. Are you saying you dropped eggs off at the Reptile Island store and they molded? Why did you drop eggs off at their store? I don't really think it's proof against them in any case because crested eggs can go bad for reasons other than humidity and temperature...

I dropped them off because it was super unexpected I was leaving town the next day for 2 weeks and had no clue what to do with them. To give myself some piece of mind while being away I decided to take them into the closest reptile shop around (previously when we were in there they had mentioned incubation services -splitting the clutch). I have seen many horrible things at both shops, Yorba Linda and Westminster, since. We won't step foot inside either shop anymore. I'd rather drive across town for feeders and supplies.........

When they showed me the molded eggs they were clearly kept too damp. Their was close to about a half inch of standing water in the cup and vermiculite on top soaked thru and thru.......

[Jaybee]

Hokay welllll now we're getting into passing reviews on certain breeders/shops/etc. and unfortunately that is against the rules here, so if that is a problem you will have to take it to the Fauna BOI (linked in the rules if you don't know where to find it) if you want to discuss it. Further discussion of the quality of the shop/your experiences therein have to be discontinued. :/

I guess I was just confused about what your story had to do with anything, kinda seemed out of left field.

Anyway... back on topic...

[Reptile Bob]

Reptile Island :/

I dropped off two eggs here earlier in the season and it was clear NO ONE ever checked on them.... Both molded. When I asked the owner what happened he told me it was "too late in the season". Since, we've hatched out 6 beautiful healthy crested geckos~ IMHO those should have hatched given proper egg temps/humidity.

We do help customers incubate eggs and then split the clutch. Many people do this for their first breeding as they're not ready to invest in an incubator or aren't confident they're ready to incubate the eggs.

I don't remember these eggs specifically and don't remember any complaints voiced to me, but we do have dropped off eggs go bad for various reasons (infertile, improperly handled before dropped off, mother didn't have enough calcium, etc). While cresteds to have a "season" of sorts, many breed are year round if you let them, and I can't imagine we'd say the egg went bad for it being later then usual. Perhaps you misunderstood. Doubtless we take every care to watch over customer's eggs and we're sorry if yours didn't work out.

Not to sound callous but, I'm not sure why this is posted here as it seems a bit off topic.

[dman2047]

Jesus Christ...to all you animal lovers remember all this talk when you decide to step on a bug or smash a fly with a swatter. I just love it when people say OMG those poor snakes, but during that there eating a steak with there fur coat on and leather purse.

[Reptile Bob]

I dropped them off because it was super unexpected I was leaving town the next day for 2 weeks and had no clue what to do with them. To give myself some piece of mind while being away I decided to take them into the closest reptile shop around (previously when we were in there they had mentioned incubation services -splitting the clutch). I have seen many horrible things at both shops, Yorba Linda and Westminster, since. We won't step foot inside either shop anymore. I'd rather drive across town for feeders and supplies.........

When they showed me the molded eggs they were clearly kept too damp. Their was close to about a half inch of standing water in the cup and vermiculite on top soaked thru and thru.......

I'm not sure I should even respond to this, but I'll say we've had reptile stores since 1996 and we know how to incubate eggs and I can't imagine this happening in one of our stores. This is the last I'll discuss this issue on this forum as it is off topic, but if you'd like to discuss it elsewhere, I'd be happy to.

[BigBadGeckoMan]

This is dangerous as well! I don't keep snakes but cant all reptiles carry salmonella?

[leaveittoweaver]

Jesus Christ...to all you animal lovers remember all this talk when you decide to step on a bug or smash a fly with a swatter. I just love it when people say OMG those poor snakes, but during that there eating a steak with there fur coat on and leather purse.

Huh? I really don't see how this added to the discussion at all. That is a whole different topic entirely if we want to get into "hypocrisy".

[sushigex]

I do agree with the point of this behavior marginalizing our hobby. Really though your fooling yourselves if you ever think that reptiles in general arent going to lumped in to this sector of "creepy crawlies". I still think you guys are being over sensitive over them picking up the snakes with their mouths. If these people were really biting these snakes with their bare teeth and causing the snakes so much pain the snakes would be noticeably writhing and violently striking.

[fluffpuffgerbil]

This is dangerous as well! I don't keep snakes but cant all reptiles carry salmonella?

Yes, they all can and normally do... but that can turn into a whole different discussion as well.
It's unlikely to get salmonella from a reptile though unless you're trying.

[BigBadGeckoMan]

Yeah I agree with the above. My family and most of my friends hate my reptiles and think they are nasty and smell bad but whatever I like them! :)

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

***Still not moved on my opinions about any of this***

This. I'm also ready to throw everything Reptile Bob is saying out the window for a few reasons, mainly because of the constant attempt to try to justify the act. And is it Reptile Island or Action Reptiles? :/


Jesus Christ...to all you animal lovers remember all this talk when you decide to step on a bug or smash a fly with a swatter. I just love it when people say OMG those poor snakes, but during that there eating a steak with there fur coat on and leather purse.

A snake or other animal being bitten and placed in a stressful situation isn't the same as a cow or pig being raised for slaughter. :/ Animals raised for meat aren't put in stressful situations and antagonized-- they're killed quickly.

[Reptile Bob]

A snake or other animal being bitten and placed in a stressful situation isn't the same as a cow or pig being raised for slaughter. :/ Animals raised for meat aren't put in stressful situations and antagonized-- they're killed quickly.

Not that it has much relevance to our work on TV shows, but I think you would be shocked to see the conditions animals in our food supply are in. Its common practice to cut off turkey's beaks at a young age so they don't peck each other to death in cramped conditions. Crated veal and foie gras are extremes in the the food industry, but standard animals aren't treated much better to be honest. While not a vegetarian myself, I certainly respect them.

[Reptile Bob]

I'm also ready to throw everything Reptile Bob is saying out the window for a few reasons, mainly because of the constant attempt to try to justify the act.

We're aren't trying to justify anything. Our goal in our responding is to educate people on what really happened on set and what our standard practices and motivations are. We felt that responding was better then staying quiet and letting it all blow over, even though that would have been far easier.

As we've stated, this has been a learning experience for us and it will certainly effect how we approach other stunts in the future.

[meg90]

How did you even find this thread Reptile Bob?

You seem more like a politician, than a reptile breeder. Pretty nimble when it comes to dancing around a direct question.

[fluffpuffgerbil]

How did you even find this thread Reptile Bob?

You seem more like a politician, than a reptile breeder. Pretty nimble when it comes to dancing around a direct question.

*fluffpuffgerbil likes this comment*

[Reptile Bob]

How did you even find this thread Reptile Bob?

You seem more like a politician, than a reptile breeder. Pretty nimble when it comes to dancing around a direct question.

One of my customers brought it to my attention. I'm sorry if I haven't been direct. The wordiness is my attempt at being thorough, but I'm aware it can sometimes befuddle the message.

I just finished an interview for Red Neck Herp Radio and you're welcome to listen to it. Hopefully it helps let everyone know what we're about.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/redneckherpsradio/2012/01/06/fear-factor-and-reptile-island

And I've been called many things over the past few days, put politician seems to be a new low >.>

[meg90]

Honestly, my opinion of your entire company is never going to change.

Anyone who is willing to A: let their animals be treated in such a way and B: allow the footage to be edited in such a way, that it casts an EVEN WORSE light is not someone I want to do business with at all.

You brought week old balls for people to bite down on, but also supplied your "aggressive" striking snakes so that they could be edited into the show to make it an even WORSE spectacle.

As a business, that knows what turmoil organizations like USARK are dealing with I can't believe you would have ever behaved this way.

Are you advertising in your stores that your snakes were featured on Fear Factor? Do you think any loving pet owner that comes in looking for a new python or boa would be PLEASED to know that their animal was previously used in such a manner?

Trying to explain it all away IS just like a politician. You don't seem upset or sorry that it happened, and I frankly don't care how you spin it, protection, "professional handlers" or not--YOUR COMPANY helped televise more unethical, and abusive behavior of snakes, which no doubt has caused more harm to the reputation of every single person in america that owns large snakes.

[Reptile Bob]

Honestly, my opinion of your entire company is never going to change.

Anyone who is willing to A: let their animals be treated in such a way and B: allow the footage to be edited in such a way, that it casts an EVEN WORSE light is not someone I want to do business with at all.

You brought week old balls for people to bite down on, but also supplied your "aggressive" striking snakes so that they could be edited into the show to make it an even WORSE spectacle.

As a business, that knows what turmoil organizations like USARK are dealing with I can't believe you would have ever behaved this way.

Are you advertising in your stores that your snakes were featured on Fear Factor? Do you think any loving pet owner that comes in looking for a new python or boa would be PLEASED to know that their animal was previously used in such a manner?

Trying to explain it all away IS just like a politician. You don't seem upset or sorry that it happened, and I frankly don't care how you spin it, protection, "professional handlers" or not--YOUR COMPANY helped televise more unethical, and abusive behavior of snakes, which no doubt has caused more harm to the reputation of every single person in america that owns large snakes.

To clarify, while we do use striking snakes as needed, upon reviewing the episode, we didn't for this show and no snakes striked that I saw. We done a lot of TV work recently and I confused that aspect with another show. As far as allowing the show to be edited in a certain manner, we have no control over the post production.

As stated, we weren't trying to "explain it all away" but we were trying to give the full story. Certainly if we were silent and ignored everyone's reaction there would be more people upset at that. We have said that we have learned from this experience and have already discussed with producers about it on shows we are currently working on.

There's not much else I can say about it and I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree on some points; certainly everyone is entitled to their opinions.

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

Meg, you're hitting every single point perfectly like a SWAT officer with a sniper rifle.


We're aren't trying to justify anything. Our goal in our responding is to educate people on what really happened on set and what our standard practices and motivations are. We felt that responding was better then staying quiet and letting it all blow over, even though that would have been far easier.

As we've stated, this has been a learning experience for us and it will certainly effect how we approach other stunts in the future.

You're still trying to say that what you did and how you did it was perfectly okay.

[MissScully&Velvet]

“The fear of snakes is cultivated. We are not born with it. Children love snakes as naturally as they love dogs and cats. Don’t be afraid of a reptile’s tongue. The only animal that can hurt you with its tongue is the human being.”
Grace Olive Wiley

That is all!

[leaveittoweaver]

To clarify, while we do use striking snakes as needed, upon reviewing the episode, we didn't for this show and no snakes striked that I saw. We done a lot of TV work recently and I confused that aspect with another show. As far as allowing the show to be edited in a certain manner, we have no control over the post production.

As stated, we weren't trying to "explain it all away" but we were trying to give the full story. Certainly if we were silent and ignored everyone's reaction there would be more people upset at that. We have said that we have learned from this experience and have already discussed with producers about it on shows we are currently working on.

There's not much else I can say about it and I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree on some points; certainly everyone is entitled to their opinions.

You confused that with another show? So because you did it on another show but not this particular one we're discussing, then that's okay?

[Dobeyxxl]

“The fear of snakes is cultivated. We are not born with it. Children love snakes as naturally as they love dogs and cats. Don’t be afraid of a reptile’s tongue. The only animal that can hurt you with its tongue is the human being.”
Grace Olive Wiley

That is all!

Although your statement is partially true it is kinda misleading. Research shows that although we are not born automatically fearful of snakes and spiders that we are pre programmed to recognize them very quickly and more readily associate them with fear. So you could say that we are born politically correct yet retain primordial bias just looking for a excuse to be expressed.

Do you think that natural selection would of favored those who were more cautious of things that could kill them during our evolution?


By the way Grace Olive Wiley died of a snake bite while posing with her snake collection, lol.

[Dobeyxxl]

Certainly if we were silent and ignored everyone's reaction there would be more people upset at that. .

Bob, it may have been better to remain silent on this one. When this thread started no one even knew that your company supplied the snakes for the show, they were pissed at Fear Factor. Not only did you redirect the outrage toward yourself but you also dragged your company name into it.

I understand that some people feel that any publicity is good publicity but in your case this may have been foolish. If you are doing well enough to be used as a expert on TV and film sets why are you trying to debate with people who feel that their pets should become recognized citizens protected by the constitution of the United States, some openly declare that they like their pets more then people.

No matter what you say Bob they will never forgive you, so move on and for the love of God if you feel the need to run a PR campaign, hire a professional ! lol

[Daedric1]

why are you trying to debate with people who feel that their pets should become recognized citizens protected by the constitution of the United States

Exactly. I'm not sure where people get the idea that there is such a thing as animal rights (in the sense that we have anyways). Certainly animal cruelty is wrong and shouldn't be advocated, but the term 'animal cruelty' itself is such an ill-defined and broad reaching term that almost anything could be defined as such by these people. To some, merely stressing an animal or owning one is cruelty.

Unfortunately for the PETA people, animals are not people and thus don't have rights as defined by the federal government. Because of this, they are considered property and are subject to the owner's decisions on what to do with them (within certain limitations). Reptile Bob (if he is who he says he is) has the right to do as he pleases with his property.

Whether you like this or not is moot; that's the way it is.

[MissScully&Velvet]

Although your statement is partially true it is kinda misleading. Research shows that although we are not born automatically fearful of snakes and spiders that we are pre programmed to recognize them very quickly and more readily associate them with fear. So you could say that we are born politically correct yet retain primordial bias just looking for a excuse to be expressed.

Do you think that natural selection would of favored those who were more cautious of things that could kill them during our evolution?


By the way Grace Olive Wiley died of a snake bite while posing with her snake collection, lol.


I still think it gets the point across.

[Holly12]

Damn I hate pepole who like to abuse animals that made me sick to see that I just want to punch out there faces and beat them until they are dead I'm sorry but that is how mad I am. People make me want to oh amn I better stop.

[GirlZilla]

Reptile Bob (if he is who he says he is) has the right to do as he pleases with his property.

Whether you like this or not is moot; that's the way it is.

And we have the right to use freedom of speech to say we don't like it, and to further boycott everything that has to do with his business.

Not everyone who believes animals should be treated humanely are peta freaks. I hate peta with an absolute passion, I don't eat meat (except for fish) and am insanely anti-animal cruelty. But I'm not an animal rights activist.

Let me just say, I would never EVER allow my animals to be treated this way. I watched the clip, and I am beyond disgusted. Those poor snakes, they must have been terrified. And echoing what others have said--It's horrible that a fellow hobbyist would WILLINGLY put our precipitous hobby in such a bad light. Just because no animals WERE hurt, doesn't mean they COULDN'T have been. I would never take that risk with my animals.

Reptile Bob, you're a complete disappointment.

[Eclair]

Call me gullible, but I completely believe Reptile Bob is who he says he is. Sure, I don't think he should've allowed people to pick up his snakes with their teeth. But I also don't believe a thing I see on TV. There's too much technology nowadays. I honestly believe he wouldn't have done this if he thought the snakes would be harmed. We subject our animals to potential dangers regularly, but justify it by telling ourselves we'll do what we can to keep the worst from happening. Or by telling ourselves we'll intervene if things go downhill. I also don't believe the episode is going to hurt the reptile world in the end. People that watched the episode as snake lovers are still snake lovers, and people that initially didn't like snakes still don't. In the off chance that it did cause some reluctant people to make up their mind against owning snakes, the great thing about people is that we can change our minds. Nothing is permanent. One day, people will forget what they saw on that episode. Possibly buy a snake, even after deciding they never would. However, I do fully agree that it would cause a huge uproar if the snakes were replaced with something furry.

Though I understand why everyone is upset, Reptile Bob has shown understanding and has kept his tone friendly. I don't think he deserves the hostility he is receiving. By being closed minded and refusing to accept the things he's saying, we're no better than the people claiming they'd 'kill themselves before owning a snake.' Do you guys think that the posts in this thread are how you want snake fans to be portrayed? Just my .2 :)

[Shenzi Sixaxis]

... I don't think most snake keepers would willingly subject their animals to high stress, the possibility of bones being broken, organs being crushed, etc. And there are a lot of people whose heads aren't screwed on correctly and believe everything they see on TV, and so do plenty of kids. Yesterday at Repticon, I had multiple kids saying that they saw in movies and on TV that snakes are dangerous and "poisonous" when I offered to let them pet my rat snake, who's the calmest and most tolerant snake I've ever met. Those things they see on TV may end up sticking with them for a long time because people are so impressionable at early ages.