Brutal Attack! HELP!!

[Cicada Hollow]

Remember my thread on the dime sized blood spots here and there? This was preceded by one of the females laying eggs, after the gentleman that I purchased from told me that they had stopped laying and he believed they were done for the season. I did set them up with a hot hide in hopes of re-stirring the interest of breeding. But tonight I watched my male, Moe, attack the crap out of my female, Meeny. Before I could rescue Meeny, Moe had grabbed her by the tail and CHOMP!

http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL816/4365215/9216169/150472185.jpg


http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL816/4365215/9216169/150472219.jpg


http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL816/4365215/9216169/150472277.jpg


http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL816/4365215/9216169/150472232.jpg


http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL816/4365215/9216169/150472108.jpg


So, I rescue Meeny and look her over really well...and I'll be darned if she doesn't have slight hemipenal bulges. Could the new environment have caused her to drop them? She's 2 y/o, wouldn't they have shown up before now? Can female leos have slight bulges like cresties? The pores aren't like Moes and look more like the other females. I even louped her to make sure. But now I'm afraid that Moe wasn't aggressively mating but trying to kill Meeny! Here is the picture of the suspect:

http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL816/4365215/10069366/149051749.jpg


I've of course have Meeny in quarantine. If Meeny is a male then I'm going to be peeved. I purchased this lots as a 1.3 pairing not a 2.2 pairing, and that I was told that they were established breeders.

Anyhow, for you leo breeders, will Meeny regenerate her tail tip? Or just have a stump? And if she regenerates, how long does it normally take?

This has been a really bad weekend. *sigh*

[cookreptiles]

oh no, poor meeny! :cry: from what i've seen leos do regenerate even if they just lost part of their tail though i'm not sure how long it will take as none of my leos have ever lost a tail or part of one.

females do have slight bulges and small pre-anal pores but they aren't as pronounced as what males have. the cloacal opening is also somewhat different in the two sexes--here are some pics that i took a while back to show the difference:

male:
http://mlededee.com/herps/leos/leo_male.jpg

female:
http://mlededee.com/herps/leos/leo_female01.jpg


i hope meeny heals up quickly for you--she is a very nice looking girl.

[Cicada Hollow]

Then she's definitely still a girl. The pores are VERY different than Moes, and I louped them and they're just dented a bit, not porish.

WHY would he do this? What would make him attack her like that? She was trying to get away from him by sneaking behind the lay box and he grabbed what was accessible. Makes me sick!

[RangerGrrl]

Meeny's tail tip should grow back, but it won't look exactly the same. As far as aesthetics, since it was only the tip it shouldn't look as odd, but everything that grows back will be shorter and stubbier and smooth, without the regular ridges of a normal tail. I don't know what would cause Moe to be all aggressive like that. Good luck with Meeny healing up quickly!

[Jeremy Letkey]

Dorthy, sorry you are haveing a rough weekend. I will try to help out in this area. I believe that your male is still exhibiting mating behavior. I also believe that your female is no longer ovulating and wants nothing to do with the male. She probally fended off many attemps by the male. Causing him to be more and more aggresive each time he tried. The result was a bite to the tail instead of the standard nibbling. I would seperate the male from the colony, let them rest for about 3-4 months. After that time if their weights are good (55g+) you could reintroduce them. I personally don't keep colonies. There are many reasons, this being one of them.

As far as the tail. Try to keep the enclosure clean. Feed her well and it will be just fine. It will grow back, however there is no telling what it will look like. Some grow back and look almost normal. While some grow back very bulbous and ugly.

If you have any questions that I did not address, feel free to ask hear or if you want to contact me privately.

[DDReptiles]

Sorry Dorothy about you leo troubles. The tail will grow back fine. I think Jeremy covered most of it ;)

[jadeboa]

That really sucks...........poor little thing........he really beat the snot out of her...........bad boy.
I had a similar event happen with mine..........the damage is on the head of the female and it actually dented the side of the head in a bit.........a very brutal attack.......I am surprised she lived.
You got lucky in that the damage will heal and she will live............she is still a very pretty girl.

[cml3.0]

Oh, Dorothy I'm so sorry. The pics sickens me :cry: . I hope that she's doing ok and will heal quickly for you. Man that was one nasty bite!! Stupid male gecko.

[mikhail]

I'm sorry! I'll pray for your beautiful geckos!! He will be okay!:)

[Cicada Hollow]

Thanks everyone. Meeny seems to be doing very well and she's hunting just as if nothing happened, so I'm glad to see her active. The tail has already started to constrict at the end. I don't care if she has an ugly tail, I'm just glad she's going to be okay.

Jeremy, I took your advice and removed Moe from the setup. This has actually disheartened me as I thought I was going to have a nice colony. I'm going to give it some serious thought, but I may just let them go and concentrate on my other reptiles. I originally purchased these for fun, so am not sure that I want all the work involved with rotating the male to females and such.

*sigh*

[Niqui13]

Dorothy,

When I breed Leo's I would keep the females in small groups of 2 or 3, but only put the male in for a short period of time for breeding. I had a similar situation, but my male bit the side of one my females faces. He took out a nice little chunk. (Stupid boys, don't take no for an answer!) Anyway, after that the male was removed, and after the female healed she was put back in with the other females. I never had problems with the girls fighting with each other. The females should live together with no problems. Just try keeping the male seperate, and only introduce him for mating. If he has been seperated from the girls, he should being mating (or at least trying to) within a matter of minutes. This way you can also monitor their behaviors and who has mated, so unreceptive females won't have to fend off a horny male! ;)

Don't give up on them yet. They really are a lot of fun. :)

[cookreptiles]

i agree with nicole. i keep my females in groups as well and only introduce the male for breeding purposes. this has worked out great and everyone seems happy. leos really are fun little guys. :D

[Cicada Hollow]

Hmmm...well I'm so mad at him right now, he's lucky I didn't boot him in the butt! I'll give it some more thought, but right now I'm leaning towards letting the male and the largest female go, and keeping Meeny and Eeny as pets. With my other projects, and cresties being the most important, I dont know if I will have the time or desire to keep more than the one setup and rotate the male for breeding. I may post an ad and see if there is an interest in them.